Erica’s Path To Luxury Appraisal

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My name's Erica Berner. The business' name is Metavera Advisory. And I serve anybody who wants to know what they value whether it be inherited purchased or something that people wanna collect. Yeah. That's amazing. Okay, Erica, and to start, could you tell us a little bit about yourself and what led you to launch Metavera Advisory? Yeah. So yeah that's a good question. My path began in product development. I created, invented, and went down the patent process for a product I made for strollers and stroller wagons. That led me to being in charge of the production, quality creation, and management of that product. And I currently have that production on pause while I build the infrastructure around the business. But all of that work, all of the learnings from stitching to hand craftsmanship to what goes into a product really led me down a journey of discovery. And so I consider myself to be a lifelong learner and I went into leather science and into tanning and all the different types of tanning there, there can be for leather. Learned a lot about handbag making, repair, restoration then went down a historical path and journey into the provenance of certain maisons, houses and luxury brands that we all enjoy today. All of that made me realize I really enjoy research. And so with research being the forefront of my mind for anything I'm interested in I really fell in love with the idea of appraising. 'Cause a lot of us are interested in what we have and how much it might be worth on the fair market, so fair market value. But if you're trying to insure something- you need to have a USPAP compliant ap-appraisal that really studies what the piece is the comparables for that item, and then also what it would be worth to replace. So it's a little bit of a different valuation than if you wanted to sell it on the secondary market. So I really loved the fact that I could marry my research, my love of research, with my love of handcrafted items. Yeah. Yeah. That's how I, I came to be. That's amazing. Thank you. That's amazing. And it is important to learn, but look where it's getting you. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I'm very excited. Yeah.

Why Handcrafted Luxury Holds Meaning

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Okay, so you work with luxury handbags and personal property appraisal. What first sparked your interest in the craftsmanship and construction of luxury goods? I think that there is a luxury in of itself of handmade items versus mass-produced. And having been in production for something from inception until hitting a market I think that it is a very luxurious thing to have something that was slowly made, handcrafted by people. And then really treasuring that and having it have a second life. And for some people that might be, remaking an item, it might be repairing an item, but then that life of the item becomes more than just a handbag that you purchased. It's a handbag that you purchased 40 years ago that you had reworked and made into something that you'll treasure and pass down to your children one day. So I think that luxury, slow luxury is fascinating 'cause it goes against everything in our society right now. But then there's also a little bit of artistry of the past, all of the, all of this knowledge being brought down from one artisan to another. I think that's just beautiful and it's storytelling in of itself. Like you know in luxury handbags, most of them have maker's marks. And so there'll be like a stamp that denotes who made it, what factory it was made from or where the leather comes from. And I just think it's really special to have something that is uniquely yours and yeah, that's what fascinated it. A little a little backstory actually is that I've always been fascinated with handbags. And when my parents went to Italy when I was 9 or 10, the only thing I wanted was a Prada bag. And what nine and 10-year-old is asking for a Prada bag as a souvenir from when their parents travel? And I did. That's interesting. Yeah. And that love has been there my whole life. Yeah. So it started young. Oh, yeah. That's awesome. And never left. That's awesome.

What Personal Property Appraisal Covers

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Yeah. For someone who may be unfamiliar with personal property appraisal- can you explain what it is and what kinds of belongings can be appraised? Yeah. Yeah. Personal property appraisal is pretty much any personal property that is not real estate. So there are perpal- personal property appraisers that appraise airplanes. Personal aircraft. There are some that appraise quilts. There are some people who specialize in appraising for example, this microphone. If you have a collection of antique microphones, they might be specialize in appraising historical equipment or m- motor equipment. It's just, it-- the way you can appraise things are boundless. What makes a personal property appraiser USPAP compliant really is if they're competent at what they do if they can give a good reason for their valuation and support it with credible facts and knowledge and then be able to produce that all within an appraisal citing your sources and giving a good valuation for something based on the comps. That's what denotes a, a valuation sheet versus a USPAP compliant appraisal. There's a lot that goes into that. But USPAP was, is really governed by Congress. Real estate appraisal, there are boards that are elected per state, and real estate appraisal is a whole other thing. But basically, if you have anything of value or if you have anything that you're curious that has value, you should contact a, a personal property appraiser. Yeah. That's so cool. Interesting. When

Inside A USPAP Compliant Report

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people hear the word appraisal, they might picture a simple document with a dollar amount on it. Yeah. What actually goes into professional appraisal? Yeah. That's a good question, and I think it's something that I would love to talk with you about 'cause I, I think that's a common misconception. Especially in the handbag world, new apps like Entropy Legit are coming up, and they give you a valuation, a number for what your item is worth on the free market, and that's different than an insurance appraisal, which is a total replacement value. So there's different types of values depending on different intended uses. I think a really good way of explaining it is there are several core elements that have to be included. Who is it for and why? So who are the intended users? And that's not always the person who pays for the appraisal. So say if you inherited a beautiful bracelet from your grandmother and she pays for me to do an appraisal on your bracelet the intended user is going to be you, and only you have access to the contents of your report. But you can share at will with whomever you want. The insurance company will never be an intended user. It's your report that then you provide the insurance company 'cause the intended user has say and has an ability to give remarks or revu- re- refute the the appraisal. Who is it for and why? What's being valued? So identifying the object, noting any characteristics down to stitch count, especially in handbags. So I have digital microscopes. I have leather testing. I have calipers. I have professional photography equipment, and I'm able to take detailed pictures of maker's marks count the stitches per square inch, and tell you what angle the stitches are at, what color the thread is in those stitches. And so all of those details of a bag really matter, even down to some bags may have patented colors and having a proper, properly lit environment to take a picture of that bag will allow me to identify if this bag is synonymous with the bag that we claim it to be. The other thing that should be in a USPAP compliant appraisal the effective date of value because the, an appraisal is for a specific moment in time, so that's why you always have to get your appraisals renewed around between two and five years. So for example, if y- you had a bar of gold that you wanted me to do an appraisal for or a collection of gold I could do it, and let's say I did it three days before when 9/11 happened, and if I have the wrong date on it, whether this was intended for June earlier of that year or if it was intended for 9/14, the price of gold would differ, right? 'Cause gold shot up after 9/11. So the, the date is extremely important for the intended use. So when the effective date of that valuation happens what work was performed, and so I have to spell out exactly what tools I used in, in the inspection, in the witnessing of the item- Wow down to calipers. I take humidity temperature checks of the area that it's being stored in. Just all of those details go into a USPAP compliant appraisal. So far of the things that I've listed, we're well past one and two pages, including photos, right? You'll find this interesting. What limitations apply? So if you bring in an item to me, say a handbag, and there's no paperwork that comes with it, so you know this is a, a genuine ostrich leather bag that has the markings Of Hermès, right? And we know super fakes and you say, "I don't have any of the boxes. I have none of the collateral, but I know that this is an Hermès bag. My mom bought it for me in Paris." I can make assumptions that would allow me to take your word for face value. And what relevant assumptions or extraordinary assumptions could I make that I could put into the report in case the bag is not what it claims to be? It would change the idea of my report. But you don't have to have all the collateral to start the process of an appraisal. I can always work with a an assumption on that. And then the thing that really matters is the appraiser's signed certification. And without that, it would just be a regular report that anybody could write. But there's a signed certification page and that's extremely important to have for a USPAP compliant appraisal versus a valuation page to resale. And so I like to say all that because I think apps like Entropy and CheckJack and Legit and all these apps are wonderful because it does give you a fair market value based on the data and the comps that they've collected over the years. But it is not the same thing as an appraisal for insurance a valuation for current market in case you needed that, or a condition report. An appraisal's really all-encompassing, as well as reconciling the values for whatever intended use you have. And then it's certified, which is extremely important. And I'm legally bound to stay within the framework of uniform standards and practices. And all of that can be cross-referenced God forbid something happens and you have to go to court I'm held to the standards. So it's a really self-correcting ecosystem- that it lies in. So that, that's what goes into an appraisal. I don't know if I covered that fully for you. Yeah. That sounds like a lot more than two pages, which now makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Around... it could be around 11 pages. It depends- Oh, wow on, on the assignment. Yeah. Yeah. But it-- the whole point is, did you do the assignment competently? Did you do it thoroughly? Did you do it with all the relevant knowledge you could gather? Is it truthful? And did you have all of your boxes ticked in terms of what should be in it? That's what matters. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. How does

Authentication Versus Insurance Replacement Value

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an appraisal differ from authentication or a resale estimate, and which is-- why is it important for people to understand the distinction? Yeah. It's, it, the, it's important for the distinction for several reasons. An authentication is great 'cause if you wanna purchase a Louis Vuitton, you need an authentication to make sure that what you're paying for is fair that you're not getting a super fake or just getting a fake. And so that way you know the value of the object that you're about to acquire. It's also great for appraisals. So I do have an authentication process with appraisals that people can opt into, and I think it's really important to do that 'cause it adds to the provenance of your piece. It is not an end-all be-all in terms of you have an authentication, therefore you're good with your insurance. So insurance does require typically an appraisal with certain parameters in order to schedule coverage for your item. So that's really what, what differs. The values differ. So fair market value, what it would sell for with two willing parties that have reasonable understanding of the object, that's a fair market value. And those comps differ than a total replacement value. So what would an insurance company have to pay to replace your item new, or if it's vintage, as as comparable to other items on the market? So if I have a 20-year-old Hermes bag in ecru then they would have to replace it with j- a, a near identical item. And so what would that number be at that specific date and time for replacement? And yeah, fair market value differs from total market value or total replacement value. And authentication is just there to authenticate that you have a genuine item. Okay. Yeah. That's very important to know, though. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And think about how many heists there have been- in the US alone. Just October 14th, there was a heist in LA and I believe it was around $144,000 worth of luxury goods taken. And if that person did not have insurance scheduled for their items then they're in the dump right now. So it's really important to get your insurance squared away when you start investing in these pieces.

Provenance Research And Collector Premiums

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How important is the history or provenance of an item when determining its value? And can you share an example of an interesting discovery you made while researching a piece? That's a really good question. Okay, so how im- how important is provenance for a piece? It's important and it's not. So it would-- It's important if you are someone who likes to collect and then sell or have it be put on auction with Sotheby's or, with Alex Cooper Auctioneers or Heritage Auctions. You want to make sure you have provenance for that item paperwork, receipts, collateral with it documented ownership. It's important. That is the differentiator between selling your bag at a certain amount versus 20% more versus 50% more, just depending on what you have with it in terms of collateral. And it's not important. It just depends on if you are a, a collector for resale, if you're a collector for the love of an item. What I will say is that if you're a collector for the love of the item, go ahead and contact someone like myself an expert with that item to do provenance research. And then they can put together a report starting somewhere that they can with a starting point, so that way you can start accumulating paperwork and a history on your item. That's helpful if you decide to pass it down to the next generation. It's also important if you want to resell. So you don't have to have something with paperwork to continue that. You can start that provenance research right now and it just will up the value of your item later down the line. Yeah. That's incredible. Yeah. An interesting-- You, you had the second question. What is an interesting find I had? I had someone come to me once with an ostrich handbag, very petite in red and it had a French maker's mark on it. It was very fade, fa- faint and faded. It was fascinating 'cause the person said, "I know what this is saying. I purchased it in France. I don't know the history on it. Can you research that?" And so I did. I took the photos. I did the research, found out that was made from a, A contractor for Hermès, but they had a small studio in Paris. And the studio sold, and I found the paper declaring the sell-- the sale of that studio the business agreements and documents. And I was able to pr-procure all that information and give her a report on the maker when this bag generally was made noting the fact that they used to be a subcontractor for Hermès and when the business closed. So they at least they have that history of that item to take with them. I think she wanted to save it for her daughter, but now her daughter will have all of that paperwork with the bag, and she'll know how special it is and why she held onto it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

When Appraisals And Insurance Make Sense

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So if someone owns designer handbags, jewelry, watches, or inherited v- valuables, how can they determine whether those thing, those items are worth having appraised? So if they inherited it. Yeah. Obviously if you inherit it there's usually a story that comes with that item, whether grandma has a story of how she was gifted a certain item or her parents passed it down to her. I would say take the item to a personal property appraiser. And if they don't know the answer, they have a network. Like I have a network of other professionals that can test jewelry to make sure that it is 18 karat gold. It can-- They can usually tell by the make of the jewelry what period and era it's made in whether it's mine-cut diamond or, if it's a lab-grown diamond if it's a treated sapphire, untreated sapphire. They can determine that by looking at the item. And then they can tell you if it's worth, getting it appraised. I will say a lot of people don't necessarily have, a royal tiara in the family, but maybe mom had a, a large Coach handbag collection that she started, in the '50s. Vintage Coach now has upped in price depending on where the leather's from, and if you have 14 handbags, vintage Coach handbags, that can almost amount to over $5,000. So a general rule of thumb is if you- if your items collectively or individually are worth about $5,000, you're gonna wanna get it appraised. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I saw the other day a vintage Coach, and once again, Coach is bottom of the luxury line some argue mid. And someone had Bleeker Bucket bags. They had 22 of them. And one of her bags was in a green color, and that one bag was worth $3,500. Yeah. Wow. And then she had oh, 22 of them. And this was, just in a group that I'm a part of that was looking at her items, and I was saying, "Yeah, you're gonna wanna get that appraised, and you wanna get insurance." Yeah. It's not even always a heist. Sometimes it's a fire, a flood. Maybe your roof collapsed and items got damaged. You just wanna have that covered so you can value and protect what you have. Absolutely. Yeah. Wow.

AI Tools And Human Expert Judgment

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With AI becoming more common in luxury valuation and authentication- Yeah how do you see technology changing your industry, and what still requires a trained human expert? This is a great question. There's a lot of discussion on it. I would say AI is a very useful assistant. AI cannot detect super fakes. It is not trained in-- It can't smell the leather, for example. Sometimes you have to smell the leather. And it's helpful for a general visual research tool. But I would argue that it is an assistant and a supporting tool for authentication. I believe authentication needs to have a human final say. Someone who's an expert, has data, and has a databa- yeah, has a database that supports their conclusions. Personally, as a personal property appraiser, I'm legally bound to have an independent conclusion. But I do use an AI-based technology to support my conclusion. And I think that's, I think that's a good example of my stance of technology within personal property appraisal. So yeah a, a supportive tool. I see it changing how consumers view their ability to understand the worth of their items. Just because you took a picture of your handbag and you put it in ChatGPT does not mean that you know exactly what the fair market value is or that it is truly authentic or you know exactly how to market it and resell it. I think that unfortunately and fortunately that cannot be replaced. Humans are very much required. You can almost view us as historians, people who research vintage items, research a whole entire luxury handbag line, and can tell you if this is if this is authentic or not. I think it's really important. Yeah. Absolutely.

Misconceptions About Inherited Valuables

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When it comes to inherited belongings or sentimental pieces, what are some common misconceptions people have about their value? Misconceptions about inherited items? I feel like that's-- I think a, a common misconception is that you could take your item to a personal property appraiser, and they can tell you on the spot how much it's worth, just like you see on "Antiques Roadshow." And that's not how that works. That. Y- "Antique Roadshow" is a fun show to get into personal property appraisal. But the reality is they have a queue of people and they look at the items and then they pull the items aside and they photograph them and they do some research before they even start shooting the show. A lot of this is research. It's having paid databases. I pay for d- databases and and having the network of professionals to rely on when you don't fully understand what you're looking at. So it truly is an art form. It is something... It's a discipline, a skill and it's something you're trained in. So it's definitely not instantaneous and it takes a little while, but it's worth it every single time. Yeah. What was your other question? What are some common misconceptions people have about their value? About the value? I th-- I would say that's probably the number one is that they can go to any personal property appraiser and get an instant fair market value or they overvalue it and they disagree with an appraiser but they don't really have the data to back that up. I think I think a lot of people undervalue and overvalue their personal inherited items all at the same time. Yeah. So like you can have a stance where I inherited a grandmother's necklace. She told me it was 14 karat gold and there's a diamond in it in the center. It looks shiny to me. The diamond's, sparkly. So it-- I looked on Kay Jewelers to something that looks similar so it should be worth like, $3,400 or whatever. It's not always the case. It might be worth a little bit less. But in some cases when people say I don't know how much this is worth, it's sentimental to me, I want it insured and I want it covered," but they don't know the value of it, and then they get surprised and they're pleasantly surprised on how well it's made and the value of that particular item. So it just depends on the person. Yeah. So your work seems to combine research, craftsmanship, market analysis, and investigation. What do you enjoy most about the appraisal process? Investigation. Investigation. I enjoy seeing luxury goods and in-- I enjoy looking on a macro level to the craftsmanship within, whether it's saddle stitching how they painted the edges knowing what kind of tanning process was required for lizard or stingray or croc. I, I enjoy the macro level of i-investigating a, a bag, a handbag. And then the, just the research on the back end. It's a lot of fun to me. I always love seeing people's faces when they get their report. If they're pleasantly surprised, it's a great day for me. And if they're not, then I can explain to them through the report and the comps, why I evaluated something a specific way, and then maybe suggest a few things t- for them to do in order to keep it in good condition for resale later. Yeah. Amazing.

Boutique Partnerships And Metavera’s Vision

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And how can partnerships with boutiques, insurance professionals, and estate professionals help better understand and protect the belongings they own? That the boutiques own or the- or that the individual owns? The boutiques Oh, okay. Yeah. No, that's a great question. I can actually answer both. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So how can my partnerships support that? Yeah. A really good example of that is my professional partnership program that I have for boutiques and consignment shops or estate sale professionals where they can have me on retainer to advise them on their purchases. So I know that boutiques like to sell things almost immediately, as soon as they put it on the shelf, but when they take in inventory and they believe it to be authentic or something worth value, I can always do a valuation, condition, and authentication as- assessment. And that paperwork then can be printed on my letterhead and sold alongside the item. That's the beginning of your collateral, if it doesn't come with collateral. And so for example, I have a boutique that has me on retainer, and they are having me currently do a 40 handbag assignment of their recent purchases, and I can do a valuation assessment authentication, and do an, a condition report on that so they can sell it at a premium. And that's really valuable 'cause that's a 48-hour turnaround on that. I like to partner also with boutiques in a way where if you have high-end items and high-end clients that they prepay for insurance appraisals for their clients. So that way when the clients purchase their el- $10,000 Kelly, for example that they can call me and they know that the boutique has taken care of them after the sale. And there is a personal property appraiser who's ready to create an appraisal for you so you can get insurance on that new purchase right away. So there's different ways that boutiques and I partner. I wish more would. I think that as p- people start purchasing things of value more often to really treasure them and use them over the years, I think that services like mine can be really helpful to them. Yeah. Did I answer your question? Yeah. Okay. Okay. And what inspired the name Metavera Advisory, and what vision do you have for the business as you continue to grow in Northern Virginia and the DC metro area? Yeah. Metavera is definitely a mix of a Greek and Latin word. And it just really means truthful judgment through skilled observation. I couldn't really find a name that, that w- was able to explain appraisal. So I really wanted to have skilled judgment and have a truthful witnessing involved in the name. So I created the name coined it, and I've just stuck with it. And what was your second question? Second question what vision do you have for the business as you continue growing it in Northern Virginia and the DC metro area? Yeah. I would love to partner with more boutiques and help them realize that in today's luxury market we are all historians. And so to have the boutiques sell their items especially luxury items at a premium with a valuation condition and authentication assessment, I think that being the start of the collateral for a secondhand bag for a new owner, I think it's invaluable. These items are not cheap, so it's always nice to have something of value alongside the luxury item that you're purchasing. How-- What's my vision? I would love to also partner with more estate sale companies. You just never know what treasures are hidden in people's homes. Yeah. And I wish that they would employ personal property appraisers. I would love to be on site more during and do inspections of each item that's purchased, and then circle back with the client who purchased it and give them a report. So I would love to do that. I would also just like to educate the public a little bit more on what they should be looking for when they need paperwork done for their items. So d- pu- just like we were discussing earlier authentication versus an appraisal two different worlds, but complementary. And what's a fair market value versus a total replacement value. I think the more people understand their intended use for an item and what they need from a service they'll feel a lot more confident in purchasing and investing in luxury. Yeah. That's amazing. And where

How To Reach Erica

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can viewers learn more about Metavera Advisory or get in touch with you if they have questions about their own belongings? Yeah. I have a website, metaveraadvisory.com. You can always go there and fill out the contact form. I'll get back with you pretty quickly. Instagram, metaveraadvisory on Instagram. Or you can just email me, reports@metaveraadvisory.com. Those are some pretty quick ways to get in contact with me. Yeah. Awesome. And as we wrap up, is there anything else you'd like to add that we haven't touched on today? Yeah. Exciting

What’s Next For Metavera Advisory

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things for my business, and I wrote them down 'cause I don't want to forget them. The first one is I'm partnering officially with CheckCheck which is a app-based authentication app. I said app-based, but it's a authentication app that can support my independent conclusions as well as assist people who are getting their items authenticated. Through that app I can be there right with you to make sure your items are covered so you can breathe easy and use them at your own will. There's the partnership with CheckCheck. I will be on a p- another podcast, "Closet Full of Cash," with Deanna in November. We're gonna discuss in depth the difference between fair market value and total replacement value, and I think that's gonna be, pun intended, invaluable for anybody to listen to. It's just gonna be a great educational podcast delving deep into that subject. And like I had mentioned earlier, I have created professional partner models for businesses and boutiques. I will say I think it's an invaluable service to have for any luxury business to have an appraiser on hand to be able to assist their client beyond the sale and value what they own. So that has officially gone live, and I am open and ready to help any boutique that would like to create and add that value for their client. And then lifelong learning has led me to enroll in the GIA gr- gemology graduate program. And that will really embolden me to also take on gems and jewelry for personal property appraisal. I'm currently an AJP. I could technically, but I am a lifelong learner, and I really want to learn that craft. As well as doing that, I am enrolling into the British Horology Institute to become an expert in watches. That will be a long journey, but worthwhile. And I just continue to be fascinated with the luxury market and continue to pursue, more learning experiences and add more value. Yeah. Yeah. That's exciting. Thank you.

Final Thanks And Sign Off

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I do wanna thank you so much for joining me, Erica, and thank you for joining "The Alimond Show." I wish you the very m- best in all that comes your way in the future. And thanks for having me.