Meet The Author And The Book

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i'm Joshua Schlotterbeck, and the book is called "The Anatomy of a Hard Heart." Awesome. I can't wait to learn more. Can you take us back through what inspired you to write this book and kind of what experiences inspired you to write this book as well? Sure. Yeah. Well, the process actually started about 10 or 15 years ago when I was in a season of my life where I was effectively numb. I remember my-- one of my kids, and I have five of them oldest is 20 in the Marine Corps and the youngest- Wow is 11, so I've been parenting for a long time. And, um, one of my children had done something that was magnificent and great, and it should have brought me joy, and it didn't. And I started taking an inventory of, myself and my emotions, and I realized things that should have brought me joy didn't bring me joy. Things that have, should have made me upset didn't make me upset. Things that should have made me sad didn't make me sad. I was just numb. And I sat in that for a while, and I wrote a, my journal, and I wrote a blog about it, and I let it sit. And this past summer, I, um, I thought I was in the same place again, and I revisited my, my journal entry and my blog post, and I was pleasantly surprised to realize that I wasn't in the same place. And so I spent some time thinking about how I got from where I was 12 years ago, 10 years ago, to now, and that became the foundation for the book as it is now. Oh, wow. What was kind of the point where you were like, am I in that place again?" Was there a specific moment you know, this past summer that you were like, "I feel like I'm falling back into where you were," "15 years ago"? Yeah.

Realizing The Numbness Is Back

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I was, you know, I was sitting in my car after dropping my kids off somewhere and, um, I realized that I hadn't really had any depth of emotional experience. And I was scared, honestly, that I had put the armor back on again or my heart was hard again. Mm. And my hands were gripping the wheel tight, the only solid thing in the world that I felt like I could hold onto. And I, and I feel like most people go through seasons of life where the circumstances just overwhelm you. And that's where I was. There was a series of-- There was a confluence of so many different heavy life changes that- Had scared me. And so I was reflective- Mm on that. Yeah, 'cause transitions can be so hard for, you know, so many different people moving from one thing into the next. Like, especially if the changes happen really quickly or really suddenly. Um- Yeah. Well, I t- uh, I said this in the last time I was on the show. Change is the only constant in life. And if we can learn how to transition well, we're gonna be okay. You're gonna survive. Doesn't mean it won't be uncomfortable or difficult, but learning to transition well is one of the greatest skills we can have as human beings. I agree.

Defining A Hard Heart

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Yeah. And so you chose the title, "The Anatomy of a Hard Heart." What does a hard heart mean to you, and where did that idea come from? Sure. Oh, man. I think there, there... In spiritual circles, particularly in, in the Christian world, o-one of the things they talk about is having a hard heart, right? And, um, or being hard-hearted towards people or circumstances. And another way you could look at it is like you develop calluses on your heart, right? Every single one of us has experienced some sort of trauma, and that's really where it begins, a wound, right? It's a harsh conversation. It's a rejection. It's, um, it's, uh, being let down, right? And a lot of our wounds begin just out of relationship friction. And honestly, we, um... You've probably heard of the flight, fight, freeze, or fawn response, right? Mm-hmm. Um, that is your body doing what it's supposed to do. That is your brain and your chemicals in your body saying, "We're trying to keep you safe." And in more cases than not, the hard heart starts as a defense mechanism, as a protection, right? Soldiers wear body armor not because they're scared, but because they need protected. Protecting the most valuable part of ourselves, which is the heart, right? I'm fir- I firmly believe that if we want to experience the most out of life, we have to live from the heart That's where joy comes from. That's where love comes from. But at the same time, simultaneously, it is the riskiest thing we could ever do. 'Cause when we, when we love people we are necessarily exposing ourselves, being vulnerable, giving somebody everything that they need to destroy us, and trusting them not to, right? And so when we live from the heart and we experience a wound, we slowly stack bricks or slowly put on armor to protect ourselves from that kind of wound. And so what begins as, as a defense mechanism and protection, if gone untreated, becomes a prison, right? Yeah. Yeah. And it can be so hard to kind of open your heart again after, you know, so many experiences where, you know, life just knocks you down. And when you think about the experiences that can cause someone to become emotionally guarded, what are some of the things that tend to have the biggest impact? Ooh,

Where Hardness Really Comes From

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that's a great question. I think it's different for everybody, research shows-- and I do wanna be clear, as I write this book, I'm not a clinician, I'm not a therapist, I'm not a psychologist or a neuro- neuroscientist. But I do tap into a lot of the prevailing research on that, because I'm just a guy trying to figure out my own wounds so that I can be a better father that I can be a better coworker, right? That I can cast vision for people. So, I do wanna be clear about that. But the research shows that a lot of, as adults, a lot of our responses to trauma are born out of our experiences in trauma as children, right? And so the first thing that I would say is a lot of where our hard heart begins to develop are our experiences with our immediate family growing up. And, you know, as k- as children, you know, we have a very limited understanding of emotions, right? I think we should teach more emotional literacy in school. I think the world would be better off. We as children are very quick to, you know, become dysregulated emotionally. And I've noticed in society now, as a teacher and as a counselor for a, a school for troubled teens, a lot of adults, because of our trauma experiences, because we actually still have some places in our heart that are hard, we become dysregulated, and it becomes a fight, right? Rather than a safe place to have a conversation about growth. So I would say a lot of the wounds, a lot of our deepest wounds come from the people we know the most. Yeah. So I would say it's relationships and it comes from the idea of unmet expectations. A lot of us have expectations about how life should go, right? Either it's from our faith-based experiences and how our faith should, uh... It's how our faith shows us life should look if we're faithful, if we're obedient, right? If we're courteous and kind and compassionate. And a lot of our times we become hard because we expect life to turn out a certain way and it doesn't. Mm-hmm. And we feel cheated, we feel let down. Um, people who, who should have been carrying us drop us, right? And so you have relationships and then you have unmet expectations, right? And then and to be quite frank a lot of the hard heart come from self-inflicted wounds. Like we do things, makes poor choices for whatever reason, and we wound ourselves. And then we find ourselves in a place of shame, right? Mm-hmm. We, we feel like we're unlovable. But here's the deal, right? Even if you have a hard heart, like you're not broken. You're not unlovable. You don't have to be perfect to be loved, and you don't have to be whole to be loved. And I think that's what this book is about. Yeah. It's about moving from a place of being a hard-- having a hard heart, discovering the antidote, and working through those hard things and being honest with yourself. Mm-hmm. And then getting to a place where you can live from a soft heart, so you can experience the fullness of life, but also understand how to be protected in a way that keeps you open to the world. Yeah. And I think, like you said, going back to a lot of trauma that we experience is from, childhood. I think a lot of people don't realize that their-- some reactions that they have to things are stemmed from the trauma that they experienced when they were children. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. And why do you think people sometimes become so good at protecting themselves emotionally that they don't even realize they're doing it?

Why Men Struggle With Emotions

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Oh, well, that's a great question. And I, I certainly couldn't speak for everybody, but I know that I can speak for myself. And I would say generally for men, um, men have been particularly taught that emotions have no justifiable place in their experience, right? Boys are taught, "Don't cry." Boys are taught suck it up, right? And so we've created this culture for men that stoicism is makes you a man. Holding your emotions in, not crying, not talking about your feelings. And what we've done generation after generation, um, we've created a population of men who can't even identify what they're feeling. And as a result, the flip side of that is you have generation and generation after woman, women who have been in relationship with men who cannot understand, don't have emotional literacy, and cannot express themselves. And so now you've got these two dynamics creating this vicious cycle. Sorry to hit my mic. It's okay. Right? So we've got this vic- vicious cycle of men who have been pushed into a corner emotionally, and quite frankly, I think the research shows the only safe emotion for men to express is anger. But even that's policed. Too angry and you're a narcissist and you're abusive. Not angry enough you're passive and have no backbone. And so I think we have work to do as a society. I think that women can be encouraged to create safer spaces for men to allow vulnerability, right? If I take off my armor in front of you, are you going to pick up a sword? And I think men need to do a better job very intentionally about getting books about emotions, understanding where all of these feelings come from. And I love, I love that, right, Disney has come out with so many great movies, "Inside Out," about emotions, where they come from, how they develop. Both funny, cute, and endearing, but also tied to psychology and neuroscience. I think that, um, that is one of the biggest challenges for society right now, is moving humanity, both men and women alike, into a place where in my world, with my family and friends, I call it coming to the table. Right? Where we... Where hard conversations are not something to be afraid of. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of people are, you know, afraid of those hard conversations to either avoid feeling the emotions or avoid what they might seem as, like, conflict. Yeah. But- Because it exposes us. Mm-hmm. Vulnerability is... I teach, uh, I taught sixth grade English last year, and it was one of the most beautiful experiences of my life. And we have-- I teach with five core values and those are infused through my book. Um, curiosity, collaboration, community compassion, and consistency. And we were talking about we were talking about compassion and collaboration, and we were talking about all these core values, and I brought up the word vulnerability. And I asked the students what d- what do they think that means? And it was interesting to me that vulnerability Their, their perception of vulnerability saw was weakness. When you're vulnerable to something, you are weak, right? When you're vulnerable to germs or disease, right? You-- it's a weakness. But, um, there's a really wonderful author that, that, um, that was part of the foundation of my growth. Her name is Brené Brown, and she is a shame researcher. It's a very niche- Yeah right, topic. But she talks about vulnerability, and one of the things she says is vulnerability isn't weakness, but it's courageous. It takes courage to walk into a room and reveal yourself, right? And I think that is the core, that is the first step into acknowledging or break-- The antidote for a hard heart is the willingness to be vulnerable. Yeah. And as humans, we should create those spaces together, right? Absolutely. As fathers, as, as mothers, as husbands and wives, that this is a safe place for you to take off your armor and to be you. Yeah. And I'm not gonna judge you. I mean, look, we all do dumb things, and we should be told we do dumb things in a gentle way that pushes us to be better human beings, right? Mm-hmm. But that's, that's it. Like, vulnerability isn't weakness. Right. And men, I want men to hear this specifically, right? Vulnerability is an act of courage. Absolutely. It takes courage to reveal the, the innermost parts of yourself to someone else. Yeah. Right? I agree. And when someone has been through difficult experiences, how can those protective walls that help them survive eventually start affecting other areas of their life? Oh,

When You Numb Fear You Numb Joy

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wow. That's a terrific question. The problem with the anatomy of a hard heart is that w- the, m- the, the heart is, is the central seat of our emotions, right? And quite frankly, we are emotional creatures. As human beings, we are emotional creatures. And one of the challenges with shutting down emotions is that when you numb yourself to fear, the way our bodies are wired, you don't just have the ability to categorically put fear in a box and leave joy and hope and concern or whatever the, all the feelings on the feeling wheel. You can't just compartmentalize one feeling. What ends up happening with our nervous system and our body is that we start closing ourself off to joy when we close ourself off to fear. We start closing ourself off to curiosity when we close ourself off to understanding, right? And I, and in, in the circles that I get to talk in, one of the most interesting things that I've seen, even with positive emotions, right? I've seen individuals earn degrees and become CEOs and rise to the top, and the more knowledge they have, the less curious they become. So what started out as a beneficial exercise in consuming knowledge, if we don't keep our emotions in check, right? The more knowledge I get, the more likely I am to become prideful. And when I become prideful, curiosity takes a backseat. And I have seen, as a business consultant, I have seen so many organizations get struck by hubris. Because it demonstrates this fact that our emotions are all interconnected. Yeah. And will absolutely, when you build your wall around your heart It affects every area of your life. How can we keep that curiosity going? Oh,

Curiosity And Journaling As Tools

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this might be the most difficult task for human beings. I think in some ways I don't understand. We are wired to be selfish, right? And so it does take v- a lot of intentionality. And the way that I taught my sixth graders, and I teach my children to be curious, curiosity always asks the question: Is there more to the story? And you have to be intentional about rooting out hardness. And I'll be honest with you this took place in my life several years ago when I was in my post-divorce world. And a friend of mine, I was complaining about something in my relationship, and my mentor said to me, is this a new behavior or is this something that you've seen over the last several years?" And that was the single most important question anybody had asked me. So I went home and I started asking myself that question and journaling and digging in deep because curiosity always asks the question: Is there more to the story? If you were to say something to me and it makes me feel a kind of way, most of us will just react in the moment. Very few of us will step back and say, "Hey, you said this thing to me and it made me feel a kind of way. Do I feel that way because I'm insecure about something and it wounded me because I need to work in my heart, I need to work out and flesh out something? Or did you say something and it was just really mean?" Either way, I need to enter into that moment and I either need to realize that I have work to do, or we need to have a conversation about the language we use with each other- and boundaries. That's hard work. That's vulnerable work, right? So to stay curious is to do the work, and it takes time, patience, intentionality. Right. And I mean, if you go into my, my home right now, I have a stack of journals on my bookshelf that go all the way back... The very first journal entry I did when I started journaling was in 2005. Wow. So I have 21 years. Wow. 21 years of journals on my bookshelf that I can return to. That's the other part of it. How do we stay curious? You know, it's real easy when other people write books, or if you're a person of faith, you look at characters in the narrative of your, your faith story. It's real easy to see how people have changed and grown because of their faith or their circumstances or the people that surround it. Sometimes it's hard for us to see where we've come from. And one of the things I encourage everybody to do, my kids included, is journal journal, right? Guys, you can call it a journal. Women, you call it a diary, right? Whatever. And I'm not talking about Facebook or Instagram and hashtagging your, you know, your lunch today. But what I'm talking about is wrestling with who you are, your reactions, your thoughts, your emotions, your scariest parts on a daily basis. Because what I do and what I did this summer was I returned to a version of myself and I examined it. And I said, "Am I the same person?" If the answer's yes, we got some more work to do. If the answer's no, we got work to do. But we can celebrate, right? I can celebrate the fact that I'm growing. Am I perfect? Far from it. Do I still have areas of my heart that are calloused and cold? For sure. But knowing that I've made progress, right? Life isn't about perfection, it's about progress. Right. Being able to see that I've made progress is worth celebrating. And if you're not tracking it, it's hard. And you get stuck in this, like, "Woe is me. I've I'm just... Man, I keep making the same old mistakes," and sometimes, listen, sometimes you might think you're healed from a wound and be like, "Yeah, I'm past that And then somebody says something to you and you're like, "Ooh, I'm not as far as I thought." And that's okay. Yeah. As long as you're doing the work, right? Right. And when someone realizes they've become emotionally guarded, what does beginning to work through that actually look like? Sure.

Safety First In Trauma Healing

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So one of the, one of the hallmarks of healing from trauma and the research supports this. Um, there's a, a guy named Stephen Porges, and he created this theory called the polyvagal theory, and it's about the vagal nervous system and stuff like that. And one of the interesting things that he says is that it is nearly impossible for you to heal, uh, if you physically don't feel safe Right? And one of the ways we can become safe or feel safe, right? And we know this innately. Just the other day I threw out my back. I'm getting to that age. But-- And I did it in the most uneventful way ever. I was sitting on the couch watching a movie with my 11-year-old glued to my hip here, and my 12-year-old was sitting across the way. And I went to-- I sat up, and I let out the most sh- house rattling scream, and it terrified everybody because I realized my children had never seen me hurt. You know, I mean, like stubbed my toe or cut my finger, but like, I couldn't move for 30 minutes. I could barely breathe. Oh, man. Pinched a nerve. It was bad. And my, my 11-year-old daughter retreated, and she disappeared. And I said to my son, I said, "Hey, can you go check on her?" And she had, she had gone to her room and gotten her stuffed animals. Why? Because it feels safe, right? She put herself in a place of safety in a situation that felt uncomfortable. So we have to be intentional about finding a safe place. For me, it's the mountains. For me it's, uh, the creek or the river, right? We have to schedule and be present in places that make us feel safe. We also need to surround ourselves with people who let us take off the armor and just be. Yeah. And for me, at the beginning of my journey, journey, it was a man named Tyler. He was a random guy. He was a software engineer, I'm sorry, hardware engineer for a company we worked at together, and we connected, and he became a safe place without judgment, but also full of wisdom. He was a safe person that I could let down my armor, but then he would gently nudge me in a right direction. And so we've gotta be willing to create safe spaces or find safe spaces and surround ourselves with safe people. Mm-hmm. Which again, is hard. We don't like-- We want people to think we're the best, right? We're arrogant by nature. Yeah. We want people to think we're awesome. And when we have to share some hard stuff, that's scary. And I would encourage anybody who has been in this place or feels like they're in this place, either find a mentor or coach or a therapist. Um- Mm. that doesn't mean you're broken. It doesn't mean you, you aren't where you sh- you need to be. But it will be the most single helpful decision you ever make in your life. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And it's also important to be able to accept that there is work to do as well. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's hard. For sure. And so you also touched on passion and compassion. How

Compassion Means Suffering With

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do you see these two qualities working together in the way we live and interact with other people? Yeah. Oh, man. You've, you've touched on one of my favorite topics. So when teaching sixth grade this past year we were talking about compassion, and I'm a word nerd. That's a thing. Should probably hashtag that, word nerd. But one of the things that frustrates me about the American language and English is that a lot of it has lost meaning. Like language used to be like deep, right? Um, like names, in ancient times, name had power and meaning. Like my name is Joshua, right? Oh, cute, cuddly, whatever. Uh, most people still mispronounce it. I don't understand that. But Joshua comes from the Hebrew word Yeshua, and the full expression in the Hebrew language means like God saves. That's a powerfully packed statement, right? Or our last names, right? In ancient times, our last names or surnames as they're called, they're either typically from where you lived or what you do. Now, like Smith, common last name, right? Well, most Smiths come from a line of smiths. Silversmith, blacksmith, goldsmith, right? And so language and words have a deeper meaning. And so there's this study called etymology, which is the origin of words, and I taught my sixth graders to be passionate about the root. And what's interesting about the words compassion comes from passion, and the true definition, the etymology of the word passion means to suffer. And when you and I say passion, we don't think of that, right? Mm-hmm. When you love someone passionately, do you think of suffering? No. No. Right? We think of passion as like the guy on the Ni- guy or gal on the Nike commercial who's running to win the race, right? We think of passion as like endurance and drive. But passion means to suffer, which means compassion means to suffer with somebody, which is why this is so essential for deconstructing the hard heart. Compassion means allowing somebody to walk with you in your suffering, to allow somebody to sit with you and to cry with you in your suffering. And we were having this conversation in sixth grade, and I tell you what, if you're a teacher out there and you get frustrated with the mundane, ask your question... ask your students some, some tough questions. I asked their student- my students one day, we were talking about compassion and passion, and one of my students says to me, "This reminds me, this reminds me of when my parents get into a fight." And I was like, "Oh man where is this going? Like, I'm about to have to like cut this off." And I was like, "Well, what do you mean?" And she said, "Sometimes I hear my dad stop in the middle of an argument and say this Her dad's a relationship ninja. He says, "Do you want my head right now or do you want my heart?" And I was like, "Whoa." And so of course the sixth grader was like, "What does that mean?" And I was like, "I'm gonna tell you. What he's asking is, 'Do you want me to come in here and help you solve a problem or do you want me to be upset with you? Do you want me to sit with you in this moment? Do you want me to cry with you?'" And I think this is where the curiosity and compassion come right together, right? "I see you. I recognize this is hard for you." And as men, like naturally we're inclined to be fixers. And I think that he slowed down the conversation enough to say, "What do you need?" That is the most important thing for us to do as human beings for one another, is to slow down and say, "What do you need from me right now? Do you need my logical, reasonable brain to help you overcome this obstacle?" Which is always try, like my first response, like I wanna solve the problem. Mm-hmm. But we also have to realize sometimes people just need a safe place to brr, to unload. And I just love these sixth graders for being vulnerable, to open up, and then I get to have these conversations to help these sixth graders become a little bit more emotionally mature moving forward. Mm-hmm. Right? And I just wish I had these opportunities with more adults. Yeah. For sure. Yeah, and then kinda going back to that, on, on... I think it's on, important on both sides to be able to recognize what do we need in that moment, and then being able to ask the other person, "What do you need in that moment?" You know? Yeah, absolutely. And so you've also explored these ideas in areas like leadership and parenting, along with education.

Parenting Lessons From The Trail

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How does the way we treat people and the environments we create influence their ability to grow? Oh, wow. That's a great question. I think the answer might slightly be different depending on what level of influence you have. But right as parents, oh man, as parents, we are the closest thing to God on Earth to our children, right? And again, like we said earlier, most of our deepest wounds come from our parents, right? They do. And so we have to be incredibly aware, because our children aren't just listening to us. They learn more from watching us. They learn more from watching you respond to bad news, to injustice, to pain and suffering, right? And so while I'm on the couch, one of the most beautiful things happened. You know, I, I rock climb and I hike and I kayak. I'm an adv- I'm not a boring... Uh, like I, I don't do boring, right? And I take my kids now and they, they climb with me, they hike with me. I've summited seven 14,000-foot mountains. Wow. And three of those summits I've done with two of my children. My now 16-year-old and I, when she was 13, we climbed the highest mountain in all of the Rockies in North America- Wow which is also the second highest in the lower 48 states. And because of an accident I had in 2023, I carry what I call a trauma bag. And it's, it's a first aid kit on steroids. It has tourniquets, and it has splints, and it has everything that I need to help someone on the trail. And recently, my kids and I were hiking in Harpers Ferry, West Virginia. Beautiful if you've never been there. It's the confluence of the Potomac and Shenandoah River. Sunsets are amazing and gorgeous. And we're putting on our gear before the hike, and this trauma bag weighs probably about five pounds, so it's not something you necessarily enjoy toting around. And My 11-year-old daughter, with her curiosity, asks me, "Daddy, why do you carry that?" And I simply said, "Just in case we need it, honey." And I've carried it in-- since 2023 on every hike that I've been on, on every trip, river trip I've been on, and I've not needed it until this day. So we do the hike. We spend about three hours hiking, no incident. And we-- at the base of Harpers Ferry, there's a bus stop, and you take this shuttle bus back to the parking lot, and we're waiting. And while we're waiting, people are starting to gather, and this this group of women, just two women, and what appeared to be a mother and daughter, daughter my age, and, and the, the mother was, you know, a bit elderly, show up, and the elderly woman has her arm in a sling. Not a real sling, like she had her, her shirt wrapped around as like a makeshift sling. And I noticed it, but the woman didn't look in pain, and nobody was freaking out, and so I just kind of registered it in my mind and stood there. As the bus pulls in, the younger woman comes up to me and she said, "Hey, I see you have a first aid kit. Do you have an ice pack?" And I said, "No. Sorry, that's actually the one thing I don't have." I said, "But what's going on? Can I help?" And she said, "I think my mom sprained her wrist." I said, "Can I take a look at it?" So I walk over, and I get her arm out of her sling, and she hasn't just sprained her wrist. She had broken her, her... I don't even know what this bone is called, but it was like broken and bowed out. And I said, "Ma'am, I, I think you've broken your arm. Would it be okay if I splint it?" So what she asked for, what she thought she needed, I didn't have, but what she actually needed, I did. And so I splinted her arm and very uncomfortably made her hurt, made her, you know, suffer a little bit, and then I had got her on the bus, and the ir- irony is we missed the bus because of this event. And quite frankly, our schedule was so tight, that was the bus we needed. So we had to sit and wait 15 minutes for the next bus, and as we're sitting there, my daughter just turns and looks at me and says, "I guess that's why you carry it." I said, "Absolutely, honey." But think about this for a second. I had experienced trauma from a climbing accident in 2023, and because of that trauma, I carried this bag trauma bag. Then somebody else comes along experiencing trauma, so what do I do? The trauma that I experienced and have worked through and prepared for now is the very thing that allowed me to help somebody else in their traumatic experience. And I think that's kind of the metaphor of the book, right? We've all, we- none of us are gonna get through this life unscathed. And if we do the work through trauma, and we, we're carrying that trauma with us in a healthy way, in a way that's prepared us for the next big catastrophe, we're not only preparing ourselves and our heart to be safe and secure on our own, but we're creating that safe space wherever we go. Because if I run into you and you've experienced trauma, let me just open my trauma bag. Let me sit with you and let me help you through this. Mm-hmm. And I might not have what you ask for, but I might just have what you need. So every one of us has trauma. We're carrying a trauma bag from it if we've learned and worked through it. If not for the only reason to keep ourselves protected, but for that moment when we come into someone else's world- and we can help them. Yeah. Yeah. For sure, especially when we've been through similar experiences that they might be going through at a different time. Yeah. Um, and then what has your own experience with parenting taught you about helping someone to work through difficult emotions rather than just telling them to push through?

Teaching Kids Emotional Literacy

36:08

Oh, great question. I love that question because the way that I grew up was told to just push through. And so I had no capacity as an adult to understand, like- I remember going through some training and I had a psychological, like a Myers-Briggs thing test, psychological personality test, and one of the things they told me was like, "You need to be more in touch with your emotions." And I was like, "What are you talking about? Emotions are silly." And so I remember there was a period of time where I started feeling things. It was like I went from like having no emotions to drinking out of a fire hydrant of emotions, and I didn't know... I couldn't identify what I was feeling, why I was feeling it. I would-- I didn't know if I was angry, frustrated, bitter, confused, right? And so as a father, as a parent, it is so important to slow down and help our s- children understand emotions, their impacts, right? And also, quite frankly, emotions are liars. Emotions don't always tell the truth, and I think it's important for us to understand that. That, like for instance, I remember one day I made my kids eat vegetables, and this is years ago, and they're like, "You hate me. You don't love me." That's an emotional response. Is it true? Absolutely not. And I remember having to sit down with them and having a conversation like, "I know you feel that way, but just because you feel that way doesn't mean that it's true," right? "Me making you eat vegetables is actually a loving behavior." And I remember taking my kids camping, 'cause I do everything outside, and I brought on this camping trip a book about feelings, and it was, you know, this kid goes to school and goes through this full gamut of all the core emotions. And in the book, there was a poster that had facial expressions and happy, sad, right? And, um, read it to him, forgot about it for a year or two, and then I found this poster and I taped it to a whiteboard in my dining room. Not literally for any reason except that it was cluttered wherever it was, and I was just like, "I'm just gonna put this up." Not trying to be a great dad, not trying to be, you know, a philosopher and lead my kids. I just stuck it up there. And a few weeks later, as it lingered there, my daughter came downstairs in the morning and she walked over to it and was standing in front of it And she said, "Daddy, I feel like this," and she pointed to an emotion. And I think it was sad. And I was like, "Oh, okay. Let's talk about that." And so we pulled up a chair, and we just started... I just started being curious, right? There's more to the story. What's going on? Why do you feel sad? What's happened, right? Did your brother do something? Did I do something? Are you missing, right, somebody? And I think it's so important for us to slow down with our children and to lead them and to teach them, right? Because it's also important for us as parents to learn about emotions because children's brains develop different emotions at different seasons. And sometimes we expect s- children to e- behave a certain way or respond a certain way, but they're literally not built in their brains to yet. Like for instance, children do childish things. Sometimes childish things feel to us as disrespectful, but it's just childish. And I've had to learn as a parent that sometimes children do childish things, and they don't need to get in trouble for childish things. Early in my parenting, I would feel like childish things were disrespectful, and I've had to learn like, "Oh, that's not the case. They're just being kids, and that's okay." One of my sixth graders, and one of the questions I asked my class: "What do you wish adults understood about you?" And one of my sixth graders said I love this. That we have feelings too. And I was like, wow, what an indictment. What an indictment for us parents and adults and teachers to be so wrapped up in our world that we don't slow down to remember that children have emotions too. Yeah. And it can be hard for them to process too, 'cause they're still learning the world. Yeah. And so there's a lot of emphadat- emphasis today on personal growth and becoming a better version of yourself.

Progress Beats The Myth Of Arrival

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What do you think people sometimes get wrong about what personal growth actually requires? Well, I think one of the things that we get wrong, I don't know if this necessarily answers the question, but I think that we believe we have this idea that personal growth has an end zone. That we can magically arrive at this version of ourselves that is complete. And quite frankly, this side of the grave, it's just not true. It is just not true. And I think if we operate with that illusion, we're selling ourself short, right? And that refers back to something I said earlier. Sometimes we think we're healed from something, and that's okay. We can. We probably are to a certain degree, but then we enter a room or a conversation or a situation and it, it exposes us a little bit and we go, "Oh, wow, I'm not as far along as I thought I was." And again, that's just okay. But making the mistake that we've arrived and we're healed Will set you back. It will actually keep you in that hard-hearted state, right? Because we are always healing. I had a friend ask me, he wanted to get back into the dating world, and he asked me, "Are you healed from your divorce?" And I was like, "Wow, that's a great question." And I said, "Yes, but I think I'm constantly healing." Anybody who's experienced betrayal frustration in a relationship, rejection, right? We have a hard time entering into new relationships. We place blame. We, we avoid, right? Our attachment style changes. We become anxious. But I remember saying to him after he was thinking about it, and he's like, "Yeah, I feel like I need to be healed to enter a relationship." And I was like, "Brother, sometimes relationships are part of the healing process." The reality is sometimes, and this is why I said earlier about-- And I don't just mean romantic relationships. When I said about earlier getting a mentor, sometimes the only way we can... our hard heart can be exposed is by coming into a relationship with somebody else. And they're like, we just find this moment where we go, "Oh, wow, I didn't real- I didn't realize I was hard that way. I didn't realize I was guarded." And so it's important to remember that just because we are hurt or wounded, we have a hard heart, doesn't mean that we can't enter into relationships. Romantically or not. And it, you don't have to be whole to be healed, right? We are always going to have areas that need to be healed. That's part of being human. Yeah. And having this idea that we're going to arrive at this magical, mystical summit in our lives, and we're just going to be free and at, free of hurt and completely healed it's just not reality. But I think a lot of us live in that space believing it. Yeah, 'cause healing is definitely a journey that looks different for everyone. Yeah. I agree- Yeah with that for sure. And so writing a book requires you to spend a lot of time reflecting on your own experiences and beliefs. What

Writing, Feedback, And Vulnerability

44:40

did the process of writing teach you about yourself? I'm not as far along in the process as I thought. I'm further than I was, but I still have work to do. And but it also taught me that I'm stronger than I thought, that I'm more resilient than I thought. And I, I'll be honest with you, I hate that word. People call me, "Oh, you're so resilient." When they actually hear my story, when they read my story, they're like, "Wow, you're resilient." And I used to resent that word because it, it felt like if you know what I've been through, you wouldn't like that word. I, I don't wanna have to be resilient. And I think a l- human beings relate to that, especially after we've been wounded. But we show up every day to work. We show up in our armor. We don't cry, right? We live in a society that applauds going through hard things and not breaking. And we've-- So we've, we've created a society where having a hard heart is normal. We celebrate it. And then we get frustrated when people don't live with honesty from a place of vulnerability and courage, and enter into hard conversations with curiosity. Then we get frustrated. So we celebrate hardness, and we get frustrated because there's no softness. Right? And for me, this book really exposed that my journey isn't over, that I'm still climbing, that there are dark recesses of my heart that, that need a defibrillator, right? And I'm, I'm grateful because I had a friend who's a therapist who really was maybe the catalyst. She had read some of my stuff on my blog that became the book, and she asked if she could use it with some of her group therapy sessions. And I was like, I was flattered, you know, like- my, my arrogance went through the roof. I was so full of joy and pride. I was like, "Wow." But it also humbled me, and I, I just flippantly one day was like, "I was thinking about pulling this together and adding content and writing a book," and she said, "Absolutely." And so she... I gave her my manuscript, and she threw it back at me with... And I'm not, I'm not-- I am literally not... I should have brought it. I'm not exag- hundreds of Post-it notes of suggestions and changes. And I, and I really wanted her to read it too because she's a professional clinician, right? She's a therapist. Like she is, she knows this stuff. And I wanted to make sure that I was not leading people astray because the way that I wrote the book was Taking the, the authors and the research from psychol- psychological spaces and neuroscience spaces and sociology spaces and bringing them together. And I wanted to write the book in a way, because if you read those things, big words, right? Like lots of- Yeah when you read neuroscience, it is like you need a college degree just to read it. And so I wanted to write this book as if you and I were having a conversation around a campfire and say, "Hey, guess what? That feeling that you're feeling is actually your brain just doing its job. But if you let it continue to do its job in that manner, it's going... You're just gonna shut down." And you're gonna become hard. So what began as that defense, what began as protection, became a prison, right? And so it also allowed me to sit with a professional clinician as exposed as anybody would be, right? It taught me that sharing my story w- didn't have to be scary. It could be a safe thing to do. And so I would encourage anybody who has a hard story, who has a hard heart, I know it's scary to share, but it might just be the safest thing you do when you find a trusted person. I'm not saying give access to everybody. I'm not saying go write a book about your pains, right? Like, uh, but what I'm saying is slow down and find somebody you can be vulnerable with because it will rev- revolutionize the way you see yourself, see others, and interact with the world for sure.

Readers Who Finally Feel Seen

48:42

Yeah. And then now that your book is out in the world, what have you enjoyed most about hearing how other people have connected with the ideas that you wrote about? Oh, man. You're gonna bring a tear to my eyes. You know, I never, I didn't publish this book for I'm gonna become rich. I published it because I feel like I'm not alone. I'm not the only one who's had a difficult road or a season or been brokenhearted. And so I just wrote this book because I felt like I needed to. I felt like I'm entering the stage of my life, I call it the sage season, and I don't mean like the, you know, the thing- the thing you burn. But a sage is a wise old man, and I'm not saying that I am wise. I'm definitely old. But I feel like if we mature well as human beings, we should enter a season of life where we impart wisdom. It is our responsibility. And wisdom that is hard-earned, right? We learn most from our mistakes and our failures and our heartbreaks, right? And so, as the book has gotten out there, and I don't advertise it and I don't put, like put, I haven't spent any money on that. I was literally at a karaoke night one night, and I got into a conversation and, and it lended itself as for an opportunity to pass out my book. And so I did. Passed it out to like five people. And about two or three months ago I got a Facebook request and a message from somebody, and they're like, "Hey, probably don't remember me, but I met you at karaoke and you gave me a copy of my book." And she was completely honest. She was like, she was like, "I put it on my bookshelf and I didn't even think about it until my husband and I started having a conversation about where our marriage is at, and I remembered your book, and I gave it to him." And not that their marriage was in a terrible place or anything like that, I'm not saying that, but... So her husband started reading this book, and she wanted to reach out to tell me this. She said, "My husband has been reading your book, and he said he finally feels seen." And that's all that I want. I want people to know that just because they're hurt or wounded or entrenched, that they can be seen and it will be okay if they are. That there is a world full of people who will support them and love them and come alongside them and encourage them, and yes, challenge them, right? And that for me has been the most humbling experience because it's a full circle moment too. I have dyslexia. I did not do great in English in, in high school, and I was so blessed because my English teacher actually, my high school English teacher helped edit the book, right? Uh, and then I'm teaching sixth grade English. So there's so many layers of just gratitude for this project, for the people who inspired me, who were walked alongside me, who believed in me even when I was a high school English student who literally refused to pick up a book. And then hearing these stories of just people letting down their armor, letting down their guard and I, and, and it's just, it's... I'm just grateful. I think that's probably- Yeah the only word I've got for it is grateful. Awesome. Yeah, and I think it kinda goes back to being able to share your story so that other people can connect with you as well. Yeah. Yeah. You know? For sure. And what do you hope people will walk away with after reading "The Anatomy of a Hard Heart"? What I hope people come away with is that it's okay to be human And that there's-- I know that the work is hard but it's worth it. And I want, what I really want for people is to be able to learn how to live in a hard world with a soft heart, right? Yeah. I want people to experience the fullness of life, to be honest, to be vulnerable, to be courageous, to be afraid, to be timid, to be nervous, to be free to just feel all of the feelings and know that just because I feel fear doesn't mean it's wrong. Just because I feel anxiety doesn't mean I'm broken, right? They all, all of those emotions have their place in humanity, and it's just okay to be human. Awesome.

Where To Find The Book

53:17

And for anyone that wants to learn more about you, your work, or the book, where can they find and connect with you? Oh thanks for asking. Uh, I have a blog, joshschulterbeck.com. My blog is, is literally an extraction of my journal, a little bit more refined. Um, but I write, I try and write weekly, at least two times a week, and, um, my experience processing my own life. And as far as the book is concerned, it's available on Amazon. Right now, if you have Kindle Unlimited, it's free. If you don't have Kindle Unlimited, it's, uh, 99, 9.99 on Kindle or 17, 17.99 for the paperback version. And if you have purchased the book or read the book I would love to hear your feedback. You can message me on my website. Also putting a review on Amazon would be stellar, or Goodreads as well. Awesome. And as we wrap up, is there anything you'd like to add that we haven't touched on today?

Tell Your Story And Closing

54:16

Oh, is there anything I'd like to add that we haven't touched on today? I would say this, not necessarily from the content of the book star, uh, standpoint, but, If there is something in your heart that needs to be spoken or needs to be heard put it... And you feel like you have or you should have the platform to do it, do it. This book was just, I felt like there was something in me that needed to get out and it could be helpful. If you're afraid of taking that step, I would be the first to encourage you to do it. It is scary. Ironically, it took me nine months to write and publish this book, which is not lost on me because that's how long it takes to produce a baby. Right? And so this book is like my baby, and I certainly went through pain- painful experiences writing it. I did the math. It took me 650 hours- Wow of work. That doesn't include all of the life experience and challenges that went into it. But I would encourage anybody out there who has a story to tell it. Tell your story. Be seen. It's not as scary as you think, and it will change more than you think. Awesome. Thank you so much, Josh, for joining me on "The Alimond Show." Thank you. I wish you the very best in all that comes your way in the future. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me.