Speaker 1: 0:30

I'm Kaylee Grunhout. I am the sole practitioner behind Wildwood Psychotherapy, which is right down the street here in downtown Leesburg, and I work with adult individuals and couples.

Speaker 2: 0:39

Beautiful. Now let me start off with asking you what sparked your interest in mental health and ultimately led you to start Wildwood Psychotherapy.

Speaker 1: 0:48

Yeah, so there's sort of two paths that diverge at one point. So I guess, in a nutshell, the big, long history is I've been touched by mental health whether that's myself, family members there's an intimate experience with it and not seeing the appropriate services being offered, especially at certain developmental points. But then also I ended up I went to school, not for therapy, not for psychology. I went for communication and ended up a doula, so helping people with childbirth and postpartum, and fell in love with that work but burned out really fast. I was up multiple days in a row, no sleep. I had little kids. I was like gosh, can't do this, not sustainable.

Speaker 1: 1:27

So I thought how can I still work with people during some of the most intimate moments of their lives, but not be up all day, not be away from my family all the time? Therapy made sense, counseling made sense, so I went back to school. So I went to school, got a degree. I was like, oh, I could join a group practice, but I don't have that freedom. I don't have the freedom to be home with my kids, I don't have the freedom to decide my caseload. So I went into private practice.

Speaker 2: 1:53

Okay, that's wonderful. I want to go back to a point you just made about having the proper services at the developmental stages. What does that mean? Can you elaborate on that?

Speaker 1: 2:01

Yeah, Happy to. So I guess, without sharing too much of a story that's not mine, a family member was dealing with mental health and they were an older adult Between the stigma of generational issues, right, People in their 70s, 80s, at this point boomers, didn't grow up seeking counseling and I think a lot of providers don't recognize it. They go oh, this is just what getting old looks like and instead of getting the help they needed, it ended up for the worst. So between that and my own experiences feeling like, wow, I was a teen that struggled but didn't know how to ask for help, didn't know how to do it in a healthy way it was sort of this combo of like how can this many people this close to me myself, my family members not be getting help? So it's not necessarily, it doesn't exist, but I don't think we know how to connect people to the services. We don't recognize it from a community standpoint, Absolutely To then get people to it.

Speaker 2: 2:59

Yeah, thanks for sharing that. That's very personal, you know. So thank you, and I kind of think maybe the health industry's shifting or changing, because I feel like doctors, even back then, would be like brush it off or it's fine. This is part of the stage it's. It's not a big deal, right, but it is a big deal and they kind of don't understand or see like how it's affecting them in their day-to-day life, just for simple things.

Speaker 1: 3:23

Yeah, I can hold good intent to normalize, to be like, yeah, you know, if it's a doctor I see a lot of people that deal with this. This is a normal part of aging.

Speaker 2: 3:41

Okay, it may be a normal part of aging, but that doesn't mean you have to live like that. Yeah, suffer through it. Right, there are resources. And then you've trained in quite a few modalities EMDR, ifs, gottman Method, to name a few. Was there a pivotal moment or experience that led you to explore these?

Speaker 1: 3:50

Yeah, that's a great question. Yes, so when I did my fieldwork like internship, I was at a practice in Maryland that specialized in trauma and every one of their clinicians use DMDR and I was this like new, still in school therapist who was like I want to know what that's like, why is everybody using it? Everybody using it. So they offered to help me train in it and it changed the game, not just in a how can I work one-on-one with someone, but in the way I conceptualize how to help someone. So for me that was sort of that entry point of how I see the work shifting, which is really cool, right, instead of just saying I'll use CBT, for example, which is a really common modality, right.

Speaker 1: 4:36

Your thoughts and feelings and behavior all sort of come together to form the problems you have. It's like maybe a little like, maybe some of it is how you're thinking. But where is that thinking coming from? If it's a belief you hold because of some experience you had, then we can't just think our way out of it. No, listen, everybody with anxiety would have thought their way out of it already.

Speaker 2: 4:57

No, I see you're like no, no, not for me. But no, that's great. And I actually talked to a previous guest here and they told me a little bit about MDR and like it's quite visual right.

Speaker 1: 5:13

So what here in a nutshell yes, in a nutshell the therapist gets out of the way. It doesn't look like talk therapy it's not me guiding and pulling and it's me getting out of the way. So we set up, maybe, a target, whether that's an experience, a memory, a body sensation that is really distressing, and we use what's called bilateral stimulation, so it could be something like tapping. People may be familiar with the finger moving. Oh, yes, you did mention this, yes, yeah, so we're just stimulating both sides of the brain.

Speaker 2: 5:40

She has like tongs or something you can Metal, thing, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 5:44

I don't have tongs, I have buzzies, though.

Speaker 2: 5:46

Buzzies.

Speaker 1: 5:46

Maybe that's what it was, yeah memories that are sort of stored incorrectly because they were distressing while keeping one foot here. So it's not true exposure. It's not like just go back to the big scary it's. We're here now and there's safety here, and it's not about me saying no, really it's okay. I'm telling you it's okay. Your brain does the work to go. Oh, I'm actually okay, wow.

Speaker 2: 6:10

I love that Well said in a nutshell Good job. I love it. It was a big nutshell. No, thank you. And then you often mentioned being a fellow journeyer. Did I say that right? Yeah, in therapy, how do you stay grounded in that mindset when the work gets emotionally heavy?

Speaker 1: 6:26

Yeah, so I say fellow journeyer because I am not the expert on anybody. How could I be? That's so pompous to think that I would know better than someone else for themselves. So the reason I call it journeying is because I'm on my own too. I am also a complicated, messy human. I am not sitting on a pedestal to say let me tell you what you should do about your problems. Gross, I don't want that. Gross, I love it.

Speaker 2: 6:50

My clients don't want that either.

Speaker 1: 6:52

They want real. They want to be able to be messy and not feel judged. That's why I wear jeans to work. Lucky, yeah, I mean, I chose that, but yes, but the way that I stay grounded is to remind myself of that we are two humans. I'm here to be sort of the co-chair, the co-pilot. I'm going to make sure that we're safe, and I liken it to like driver's ed, like I have brakes on my side, I can help us slow down. But at the same time, who am I to guide you somewhere that maybe you don't want to go? Who am I to say I have an agenda and it's to, I don't know, help you come up with three to five new beliefs about yourself. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 7:27

No, I love it. I want to change the topic here a little bit and ask you about marketing and what you are doing to market yourself and the type of services you provide and how you're able to help people. Are we doing things on social media? Are you maybe doing some dancing? I don't know. I'm asking.

Speaker 1: 7:43

Am I dancing, are you?

Speaker 2: 7:44

dancing Right now? You are, or are you going to networking events? Talk to me what's working, what's not working.

Speaker 1: 7:50

Yeah, so this was actually a big part of my journey in private practice. Private practice is incredibly lonely. Nobody talks about this. So I went from field work of being a solo practitioner in an office building. Yes, I'm with people all day, but I'm with clients all day. Yeah, I'm with the people who've already found me and I go in and I close the door and I come back out and close the door.

Speaker 2: 8:11

And then do it over and over.

Speaker 1: 8:11

Over and over All day long and then do it over and over, over and over All day long, every day of the week. So when I started my own private practice, I was like this is not healthy, it's not good for me, it's not good for other therapists. So I actually started to co-host a networking lunch for therapists in Loudoun County. How lovely, it's wonderful. It has grown. We have almost 30 clinicians that come once a quarter to lunch and it's super low stress. It's about community and that's been a really great resource, right, because we have each other and we can say hey, I don't see kids but you do so now I know someone that I can give a warm handoff to, and vice versa.

Speaker 1: 8:44

Exactly, they go. I don't do MDR, I know the perfect person. That's amazing. What is it called? Yeah, we don't have a name for it. I know we're getting there, okay, but at this point it's the mental health clinicians meet and mingle. Quarterly lunch.

Speaker 2: 8:56

Where can people find this? In case they're interested and they're like, I want to be a part of that.

Speaker 1: 8:59

Yeah, my website wildwoodpsychotherapyco.

Speaker 2: 9:03

Yeah, beautiful, thank you, you're welcome, that is awesome that you started that. You're like I see like we're missing something here. Let me go ahead and just do else is doing is why not? I love it. You took initiative and now I want to go back to the mental health part. Balancing validation and gentle challenge can be delicate. How do you discern when to lean into reassurance versus pushing forward to growth?

Speaker 1: 9:28

Yeah, I love that question Because my job is to have good rapport with my client, right? If someone doesn't feel safe with me, we are doing no work. I'll be lucky if they come back. Thankfully, most people come back Yay, good. But that means having to have that both clinical judgment and intuition to know are they ready for this? Is our relationship strong enough for me to do this and them to feel safe enough to go? Oh, that's uncomfortable between me and my therapist, and so I again practice being human. I'll check in. I'll say, oh, I just pushed you a little. What was that like? Sometimes it's like, oh, I don't like that, but it's okay. Yeah, and I think that's where we can demonstrate to people it's okay to have conflict, tension in a relationship and it still be healthy. Yes, a lot of people are not used to that. No, any conflict or tension is perceived as criticism, right. Then it's like, oh, I'm bad, I did something wrong.

Speaker 2: 10:25

They hate me. Yes, right.

Speaker 1: 10:27

Or the opposite. They'll people please. Oh no, it's fine, that was totally fine. That's me right there in a nutshell, and I go ooh, I noticed what you did there when you said that that's tough. It is tough.

Speaker 2: 10:38

You have to be willing to do that and put in the work, though, because once you get over that hurdle, anything that is good for you sometimes is not going to be the easiest, but once you get over it, you're going to be like, oh my gosh, I'm so glad that I did that, because if I did not, I would not be here today sitting here telling you that I'm glad that I did.

Speaker 1: 10:54

That was the best decision ever even though it was so uncomfortable and I hated it. Yeah, but that's the difference between being like growth oriented or just going for support. Yep, and I think that's where people get stuck in. Let's say friendships, right, because the natural tendency for humans is to be like oh girl, yeah, no, that makes so much sense, you're right, instead of the friend who's like friend, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to tell you honestly, this didn't land right. Yeah, this is how it's sitting with me.

Speaker 2: 11:18

But that's good to have honest people around you. Keep you grounded or like a therapist clinician, whatever you want. Yeah, love it. And then for folks navigating the transition into parenthood, perinatal anxiety or identity shifts that can be profound for them. What's one subtle sign you encourage listeners to watch for in themselves?

Speaker 1: 11:40

Where it relates to like postpartum, perinatal, yes, yeah, I would say. One of the bigger signs, I think, is when you start moving from I don't know if I'm cut out for this or this seems harder for me than other people to I don't think I can do this and it feels like a more regular theme throughout your day, because then we're edging into. Maybe there's more that needs to be done. Everybody questions is this normal? I mean human experience. Yes, but especially in the perinatal period, if this is new, whether it's your first baby or your third, you're going I don't know this baby, I don't know myself with this baby. Is this normal? Is this normal?

Speaker 1: 12:25

And there are certainly trying times where it's like I don't know if I can do this. Sure, because we're kind of at our breaking point, but when it's the repeated, I don't think I can do this. Sure, because we're kind of at our breaking point, but when it's the repeated, I don't think I can do this. I'm not cut out for this. This baby would have a better parent time out. Yeah, it's time to talk. Yep, work on it. Exactly, and there's so much help available, so much, and I think people are just so isolated in postpartum that they don't recognize it.

Speaker 2: 12:52

Dang, how do you, or what have people told you when they like didn't realize it, that they finally decided to come to you? And like, how long did they wait? Is it like it varies, like what?

Speaker 1: 12:58

Yeah, this is a common misconception with therapy. Is that you have to wait till your breaking point. You have to be totally falling apart and then you go to therapy.

Speaker 2: 13:07

No, we're like picking up the pieces.

Speaker 1: 13:10

Yeah, we're like picking up the pieces at that point. So that's where I think it's really important to have a clinician who knows how to meet you where you are, because if you come in and you're like I'm not sure I'm gonna make it till tomorrow, that's gonna be our priority, but you can come in at any point. Where, like, I want to look at myself, I have some questions, I have some curios whether that's things that happened in my childhood, whether that's I'm thinking about this upcoming transition that I might experience, a decision I want to make that's a great time to go to therapy.

Speaker 2: 13:41

Oh my gosh, go then. True, get in there. Don't wait till the wheels are falling off, right.

Speaker 1: 13:46

Yeah, because then we're just in crisis mode and, yes, you can come to therapy in crisis mode. I don't want to talk people out of that.

Speaker 2: 13:52

Yeah, better than never coming right, please come.

Speaker 1: 13:55

Come in, and it's not just crisis line therapy. Come in at any point.

Speaker 2: 14:01

Yeah, anytime you want to do the work and then do you offer telehealth services as well, because I know that's become a big thing. Some people are just like no, still in person. But is that something that you offer?

Speaker 1: 14:10

Yes. So the way it works is states have their own regulations, so in Virginia a client has to be physically located in Virginia. Now will some people cross over the river from Maryland and park their car somewhere safe? Yes, they will, because then they are in Virginia and they're like I can get therapy today from my car and that's okay. But what I actually found in this when I first went into private practice was sort of like I don't know what to do here. This is scary. Was I actually went for the office space first, because so many people are still screen fatigued and we're talking about really deep stuff and sometimes it's like I need the safety to know that you can sit across from me and read my body language.

Speaker 2: 14:46

So I offer both. Yeah, I like that. And now, what does your office look like? What kind of? I like that. And now, what does your office look like? What kind of I guess vibes are you hoping to give people when they come in there? Yeah, the space that you've created.

Speaker 1: 15:01

I'm partial. I love my office, but people walk in and they go oh, it's like a little living room in here. That's the vibe. That's nice. Come join me in the living room. Yeah, this is the safe space. I see it very much as the container for the work that we do. Not everybody can be in their feels all day long. Right, Many people are like I put this stuff all the way to the side until I come in here, and that's okay. But that living room becomes the container for the work that we do, but also for them to be able to leave it there and go back to their lives and go. I'm taking what I talked about here and putting it into practice and coming back to this space.

Speaker 2: 15:31

Yeah, I love that. And are you currently just a one girl show, one lady show here? Wow, have you ever considered maybe getting more people on board? Are you waiting for a certain time? Talk to me about that.

Speaker 1: 15:42

Yeah, it's a tough call right, because I already balanced the clinical work with running a business and I love that. That's why I didn't go into a group practice, because I do love the business side. I like being able to do it the way that I think is important. And and I think there's a trepidation right to bringing more people on and losing the essence of what you do, I can sit here and say what you see is what you get, this is who I am as a therapist, this is who I am as a person, and when you bring on more people, it's like you don't know. You don't know the people as much. But at the same time, I think the more practices we have that are committed to social justice, are committed to inclusivity who are you know, out here I'll be frank right demonstrating with our community when it's important, if we have practices that are rooted in the right things, then I start to go. Maybe I could do that.

Speaker 2: 16:35

We'll see. Yeah, no, I love that. Where do you hope to be in the next five years? Maybe not even just onboarding with another clinician, but maybe getting help on the clinical side, right, maybe getting an assistant, or just I don't know. Where do you see yourself in the next five years personally and with your business? That's a great question.

Speaker 1: 16:54

I have taken such baby steps throughout this process to keep me right where I am. It's almost a way to practice like presence. Yeah, I can have ideas, I can dream and I go hold on. Am I still here or am I just chasing? I am not exempt from people who chase things. I am the first person to admit like yeah, I get caught up in the like and then we could, and then we could. Great ideas are great, but I don't want to lose where I'm at.

Speaker 1: 17:17

So for me, I think a big one is consultation, Like who are the people that I am consulting with about the clinical work that I'm doing? So five years from now, I would hope to have sort of my one to two typical mentors. For myself as a clinician, I will add you asked or mentioned kind of like admin side, like an assistant. Ai has been super helpful. There you go, and I know, know, like as a therapist, that's super taboo to say Really yeah, because there's privacy concerns and there's the idea of taking jobs, which that's a whole other conversation. But for me it has actually been an accommodation that I can use to be able to do my job better. So things like progress notes, I keep them separate from people's medical records. So I use AI transcription to help me with my progress notes so that I can be fully present with my clients and not spending my entire Friday, Saturday writing notes at home.

Speaker 2: 18:12

I love that. No, it's just finding a way to make it easier, so that way you can I don't want to say perform, but I guess be better and give the best quality of yourself to your clients and give them more time, as opposed to like we're going to make this a 20 minute session, but I'm going to spend about 30, 40 minutes with writing down everything you said, and making sure.

Speaker 2: 18:29

So I think that's awesome. It's finding that balance and I I do get that pushback about like taking away jobs or whatever, but it's just finding that balance Right and just making sure it's not like I don't know how can we use the responsible tool here, or use the tool responsibly. Yeah, yeah, but glad you touched on that. If a listener, maybe who is listening, feels stuck but isn't ready to book a full session, maybe they don't know where to begin. What's a?

Speaker 1: 18:59

small practical step you'd offer. Yeah, come join us. I offer community events. So this summer we're going to have every other week at the rest library. It's called breathing rooms, not sponsored by the library, but it's a mindfulness practice. Come, just be present with yourself for a moment. Spend 30 minutes going. Am I okay? How are you doing in there? Take a beat, right, like. Take a breath. Can I come back home to myself for a moment, knowing that, yes, that's not going to fix what's happening out here in the world. It's not going to fix your problems. We're going to be realists about this. Yes, do that. Join our book club. We have a book club that meets twice a month. We pick a new book every month. If you want to talk about personal growth but maybe aren't ready to unpack it like on a deep dive level, try that. Do it in community, where there's still I guide it right, so you're still getting the help of a licensed professional without it having to be deep therapy.

Speaker 2: 19:49

That is so cool. Is there like a prerequisite? Do they need to be current clients? Or maybe they're curious and want to try that? That's exactly who it's for. Wow, Beautiful. And now I want to ask you is there anything I have not touched on that? Perhaps you want to share, whether it's about your business yourself, the type of services you provide, Maybe a fun fact about yourself? You have the floor for that right now.

Speaker 1: 20:10

Yeah, I am team. Fun fact that's what we use at our networking lunches to be like we are more than just clinicians. So I will practice what I preach and use that for myself here. Fun fact I'm a member of this community. I live here, I have a family, I have three kids, so I'm part of the school system. I'm just like kind of the folks that I see. So I like to remind people therapy is not just for a certain type of person. I go to therapy. All my clients have a grand therapist right Like you want to know that you're in good hands. But my fun fact is that I am just like my clients in many ways. As a way to remind people you don't have to be afraid of therapy.

Speaker 2: 20:45

I love that. Thanks for sharing that. What do you like to do outside of helping other people with their mental health? How do you balance work life, family time and setting boundaries? Talk to me about that. Yeah, Big fan of the boundaries.

Speaker 1: 21:00

I'm learning. I'm learning, yeah, and sometimes it takes seeing other people have them to go. Oh, that looks good. You protect your peace. I want whatever you're doing, yes, and so for me that's having clinical hours. I see folks generally between eight and three. Those are my clinical hours, and then I have administrative hours so that I can get my things done and go home and be present with my people. So the things I like to do outside of that is I'm over here laughing because I was like looking at my nails earlier.

Speaker 2: 21:24

I like to dig in the dirt. I like to garden.

Speaker 1: 21:26

I like to garden. I was out in the garden this morning. I can't tell Thank you, yeah, good job, and go to concerts. Because here's the thing If I don't take care of myself, I can't do good work. Exactly If I see 30, 40 clients a week, which some people can, if that's your speed, cool, it's not for me. I can't take care of myself enough to be regulated and present, and that's what people really are paying for, not just fix my problems. Yes, it's, I need to be in a space where I can borrow some of your calm energy.

Speaker 2: 21:54

Absolutely so for me, it's non-negotiable. No, and I'm glad you do that, because it would look kind of silly that you're telling people like, hey, you need to make sure you set boundaries, and then you're not, and then you're stressed helping other people. Like that's kind of wild, like I don't know if I want to take her advice. Yeah, exactly. So we want to practice what we preach. I love that. And you mentioned concerts. What kind of concerts do you go to? Who was the last person you saw? I'm very interested. Who?

Speaker 1: 22:19

was the last person I saw. Well, I'll be frank. I took my kids and spouse to go see the ABBA concert at Tally Ho the cover concert.

Speaker 2: 22:27

Oh, I was going to say I didn't know.

Speaker 1: 22:28

they were like no, no, it was Mama Mania. So we went to an ABBA cover band, which was so much fun, wonderful.

Speaker 2: 22:35

I love that. It's so good that you're still like you know, let's go to concerts, let's go see what you know, whether it's cover or whatever. I love that so much to do here. That is so awesome. All right, I'm going to ask you one more question, but if there's anything too that chime in, perhaps, that you want to talk about, maybe you're working on another service that you want to add to your practice.

Speaker 1: 23:01

Maybe you're thinking about writing a book or a workbook, anything like that in the works that you want to share.

Speaker 2: 23:04

I want to make sure I get everything.

Speaker 1: 23:05

I appreciate that. Yeah, Um, there's no book yet. Reserve the right there. Um, no, but I do offer intensives and I think that's a format that many people are not aware of that you can do more than just weekly 50 to 60 minute sessions. So I offer people the opportunity to come in for a three hour session. If you want to do three hours three days in a row, then we block that time and basically roll up our sleeves and like do the deep work, Cause I think a lot of people either get stuck in weekly therapy because it becomes sort of patternized and it's like, well, yeah, or they're working with someone else and maybe they've gone as far as they can and they're like this thing I just really need to target and get in on. So that is a service that I offer. I think it's great for people who can't commit to weekly therapy either, whether they're traveling, their schedules are crazy and you know, it's a nice opportunity to say, OK, there's this thing I want to work on, I'm setting aside three days and I'm going all in.

Speaker 2: 23:55

Yeah, I love it. Yeah, All right, my yeah, I love it yeah.

Speaker 1: 24:13

All right, my final question, I promise, is there a quote or a saying that maybe somebody has told you in the past, maybe growing up? Maybe a quote per se, but maybe a concept? Okay, hit me. Pointed to me because it was also so practical in trying to understand how they viewed themselves and how they got there. They likened it to a map and developing this map, sort of in childhood, and recognizing I've been carrying this map since I was a kid and things don't actually match the real world anymore. And so just this idea that we carry these maps, that we get to edit I don't think people realize they get to edit it. It doesn't mean we can change what happened, but we can roll it out and go, oh, I used to think that was this and it's not, it's not. My adult self recognizes it's not. And then we can change it. And then the map that we carry through the world that we use matches who we are now, absolutely, and I just I found that so profound but also so simple and I was like that's good stuff.

Speaker 2: 25:21

It's simply hard a little bit too, because you're thinking like, no, this is set in stone for me, or like my parents went through this, all of that. So I think that is a great concept to have, and once you can picture everything and put it in the big picture, like, okay, it doesn't have to be my future, I can, and change it and make it my own, I think that is wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing that. I really appreciate your time and you being here and it was awesome. Yeah, thanks so much. I appreciate it. You're so welcome.