Speaker 1: 0:30

I am Dr M Dreiling and my business is Three Leaves Psychological Services. We have offices in Reston and in Baltimore and we provide services any counseling services and assessment services to the gamut from kids to adults, couples and families, pre-natal counseling. We really run kind of the gamut of anybody who we can help. We try to help.

Speaker 2: 0:54

Yeah, and I saw in there, you also help people from the LGBTQ plus community, which is something that's awesome and that I guess I should bring up, since it is pride month, in case anybody's listening right? Yes, Happy pride to everyone. Yes, happy pride, absolutely. Can you give me a backstory about yourself and how you got into your industry and what made you decide that this was the field that you wanted to dedicate yourself to?

Speaker 1: 1:15

Sure, it was a bit of a windy road. I graduated from undergrad with a degree in psychology and theater and after that decided I was going to go to California and try my hand in the acting world Wow, and while doing that I was supplementing my income with I started substitute teaching in South Central LA and loved it and loved it, I loved it, I loved the kids. I was working in the middle school and had a period of just kind of having a conversation with myself about where can I do the most good? And I wanted to get into counseling. So I got my couples and family therapist, my MA from Pepperdine. And then I worked for a community agency, which was wonderful, and I had some really amazing supervisors and had a. I want to be good at this job. And so I got my PhD out in Colorado and worked with a wonderful, wonderful community from students to a community clinic, which was lovely. Your peers, yeah, yes, it was wonderful. And then my internship was at Hopkins up in Baltimore. Wow, you were all over the country.

Speaker 1: 2:26

Yeah, so that brought me so West Coast to East Coast, and after graduation I worked for a group office down in Fairfax and then started my own company in 2017. So a bit of a journey, but stories all along the way.

Speaker 2: 2:43

What was that transition like for you, when you started your own business and you had your own like LLC?

Speaker 1: 2:49

It was so, honestly, the business part of it was terrifying. I am not a business person. Part of it was terrifying. I am not a business person. I did not know anything about starting a business, which I feel like is a disservice to people in the helping field. We are really not taught about how to make money, how to manage a business, so I was very confident that I was going to mess up and I was going to jail and then I was going to be called Dr Sidman Fraud and that was going to be my story and that fortunately did not happen.

Speaker 1: 3:16

Good, and, yes, turns out, anxiety can be a liar at times, yes, but I knew that I wanted to be the boss. I knew I wanted to be able to make independent decisions and build a clinic and a culture that was important to me and focused on opening up to a diversity of clients that I wanted to be able to serve, and so that was really impetus of wanting to start out on my own. Yeah, and it has been wonderful. I really have loved the autonomy of having my own practice, as well as the responsibility has actually not been nearly as intimidating as I thought it would be Good, and I've had wonderful support along the way, which I would tell anybody. There are people that if you are not the expert, there are people that are Absolutely and you can find them.

Speaker 2: 4:02

Yeah, it's great to have a community behind you and be able to help you, and vice versa, so that's awesome that you have that. Now I would like to ask you about the type of therapy that you do, what it is and how it can help people from all walks of life.

Speaker 1: 4:18

So therapy is?

Speaker 1: 4:19

I honestly believe that everybody can benefit at least at some point in their life from having someone who is there to give compassion and give insight and help people understand things differently, which is really the kind of therapist that I tend to be. I'm interested in your story and the places in your story that have formed how you understand yourself and how you walk through the world and some of those places we can understand differently, to understand ourselves a little differently. So that context is very important and compassion is very important, and we have been very fortunate that we have been able to serve a wide variety of clients and I will say that kind of. Going back to the idea of business, I have done something that everybody in business told me not to do, which is I do not specialize and simply because I think I would feel a little bit bored if I saw the same thing every day, and so I am really fortunate that I have a very diverse portfolio of people that I get to talk to in a week, and so that part has been wonderful.

Speaker 2: 5:24

That is something that I do hear a lot when people come through is like find your niche, niche down and be specific with that. So I love that You're taking a different path from a lot of what I'm hearing and that can absolutely work for people.

Speaker 1: 5:36

Yes, for sure, I would recommend it if that is, but it's not for everybody, but it's not, and I don't think that it has to be. Yes, and so I have been. I've been able to grow with my clients and as they, as I, find their needs, I get to research and I get to, I get to learn new things, and so my day is very, very diverse. I love it. Which, yes, so not every business piece of business advice is going to apply to everybody. Yeah, absolutely so. Yeah, find what you love, which I have been able to do.

Speaker 2: 6:04

Awesome. Now for your team. How many people do you have on board with you?

Speaker 1: 6:09

There is myself and my colleague, dr Kyle Johnson. He works out the side of Baltimore, he is a school psychologist and he is part-time with me and is wonderful. He focuses on kids and assessments and families and is just a really wonderful person and a great clinician and we have brought someone on to help with assessments and we are looking to expand. The need is pretty great. What?

Speaker 2: 6:30

are you looking for? Maybe somebody's out there who could help?

Speaker 1: 6:32

Oh my gosh, absolutely. We are looking to expand our clinician base. There's a lot of need, especially now, and so, yeah, for people that are interested in kind of getting a foot in the door and in the field. We are looking to take on people.

Speaker 2: 6:46

Awesome, you heard it here first, guys, so reach out to Dr M here if you're interested in that. And now I want to talk to you about your clientele and the type of clientele that come to you. Who is normally? I know you work with a lot of diverse people from different backgrounds, but who is typically coming to you and what are some of the issues that's going on right now with people?

Speaker 2: 7:06

or like that you've noticed, like maybe it's a trend or maybe social media has brought on this new feeling or something that you've noticed with people, or maybe just with society since COVID, or whatever it may be. What have you?

Speaker 1: 7:18

noticed. I would definitely say that there has been an influx in the need for therapy and people who have become more comfortable reaching out, which is wonderful. We are working on the stigma of needing therapists and in the mental health field so that people are, I think, just more comfortable reaching out, which has been, I think, a really good trend in our culture. Things have been stressful, they just have, and so I think our kind of overall anxiety level has had a couple of upticks and so people are just feeling more stressed there. Pressure there's, I think there's a lot of just generalized anxiety about where, what direction the world is going and kind of, where do I fit? Yeah, in all of that, and generally for me, the people that are coming in at this point, it's a lot of word of mouth and referrals from other clinicians or other doctors that say I think Dr M might be a good fit.

Speaker 1: 8:14

So I would say recently I've had an uptick in couples, which has been really fun, okay, and so we need to communicate more, or we're transitioning into retirement and we don't know how to do this in this phase in our life, and so things like that have started to come in a little bit more frequently right now yeah, which has been lovely. Started to come in a little bit more frequently right now, which has been lovely. People are graduating, so young adults coming in and saying like, okay, how do I do this adult thing and what does that look like. So how do I maintain relationships, how do I find my way, how do I fit into a work culture? All of that is just a lovely new transition that people are going into, which, anytime there are transitions that change, having someone that can help you navigate that can be beneficial.

Speaker 2: 9:00

Wow, I wish I had known that, like growing up, cause I feel like I didn't know there was someone that I could talk to, or sometimes like my parents won't get it, or like my friends are growing distant from me. I don't know if I can tell them that. Do they feel the same way? Am I odd for thinking that, like I didn't even know? Like when you graduate, you can talk to someone, because that is scary? You're like, all right, I graduated college, like I have to be full-time now, but I don't even know. Now, what, what do I do? They're looking for experience. That's like five years and I'm just like I'm just graduating. I don't know how will I?

Speaker 1: 9:27

get a job, yeah, and so having someone that can say, hey, yeah, you're doing okay, this is common. A lot of people are dealing with this. Let's figure out what you want. Let's see what steps we can get you to take to get there.

Speaker 2: 9:52

And a lot has changed over the years with culture and just everything, especially surrounding mental health. Like I think we're finally in a place we can obviously do better, but we're finally in a place where, like it's okay and it's not looked down upon and it's like, yeah, everybody needs help. Duh, that's the thing you do. You go talk to somebody, get some counseling, let it out. But I feel like back then it was a little bit taboo and you didn't want to tell anybody that you saw or that you're taking, maybe, medication for it. And it's just like I feel like we're in a place now where it's like oh, yeah, yeah, I take this. Oh, you too. Yeah, okay, cool, which one are you on? Oh, my gosh, we do that. One's working right. Like it's not so much of like a stigma. So I think that is awesome, that we're going in the right direction with that, because a lot of people may have felt invalidated or just like they were.

Speaker 2: 10:42

I'm not fitting in or like something is wrong with me. Is anybody else doing this? Is it just me? Am I like crazy for this? But no, it's not, and I love that you offer a safe space for that and that there's people out there who understand you, and I love that you have a diverse clientele. It's not a one-stop shop, so really you can maybe someone's going through something and you're like, well, guess what? I also specialize in this and I can help you through this right.

Speaker 1: 11:04

Yeah, and I think one of the most interesting questions that I get when people either are asking about therapy or coming into therapy is that space of like well, do you think people can change? And yes, otherwise my job would be incredibly depressing. And so, yes, I think people can change. I think people can't help it. They can't help that change.

Speaker 1: 11:24

And if you ask anyone, if you are 30, do you think you are different than you were when you were 20? Yes, of course. When you are 60, do you think you're different than you were when you were 50? Yes, of course. And some of that change is just how we evolve and experiences and we're not necessarily trying, it's just growth, and some of that change is kind of forced upon us. We have a baby, we lose a job, we move to someplace new and we have to adapt. And some of that change is change that we want to make, that we want to be deliberate about, and that's. I want to be a better communicator, I want to have more confidence, I want to figure this out, and therapy can help with any of those.

Speaker 2: 12:02

Absolutely. What are some common misconceptions in your field or in your industry? Or maybe your clients are coming to you and they thought a certain way about certain things and you've been able to help debunk some of those misconceptions they may have.

Speaker 1: 12:17

Okay, I think people think therapy is very serious and I'm going to go and I'm going to cry and it's going to be very serious and it's going to be very hard, and that can certainly be a part of therapy, and I laugh a lot during my day. People are amazing, they are hilarious. The way that we work is just phenomenal and ridiculous, and so a big component of therapy at least with the therapy that I tend to do involves like we get to laugh at ourselves, we get to learn, we get to not take things as seriously and find the ways that we can be flexible in the world. And so, yes, there are certainly tissues next to the couch where people sit. Of course there are tissues there. We've got some tissues here Wonderful, as we should. And I think the other piece is that the work of therapy it is work, but it can also be very, very fun work to do Absolutely, and feeling better is a big part of that. Oh, yes. So that piece, I think, is important to know I love that.

Speaker 2: 13:22

I love laughter and humor. Like sometimes there's days where it's like so hard for me to find like joy, but when I do, I'm like man, this feels so good. I want to feel more of this more often.

Speaker 1: 13:30

Yes, have your pockets, have your things that make you laugh. Laughter is incredibly centering. It's hard to be too focused on regret of the past or anxiety about the future. When you are in the moment, sharing something that is joyful with someone, are just on your own, those pockets are important.

Speaker 2: 13:47

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more with you. I'd like to ask you about in your work with couples what common challenges do you observe and how do you help partners navigate issues like communication problems or infidelity.

Speaker 1: 13:59

Communication is huge and I would say most couples that come in are very self-aware about. We need help with communicating and, honestly, I would say the piece where couples tend to find themselves just not connecting is when they start doing a lot of assuming what the other person will say and stop asking questions. And so that is the piece that where we start is, rather than saying, well, I know what she's going to say, ask her Again. People change, and so a lot of the rebuilding communication is you need to ask, you need to ask more questions, you need to do things together that are different than what they've been.

Speaker 1: 14:38

Novelty can be important, just as important as stability can be, and so a lot of that needing to reconnect is simply you need to learn about each other, because you get to grow together and it's important to check in and say, hey, I thought I knew this. Am I still right, or I made this assumption, is that correct? Or this is what I heard, is that what you meant? And it's learning more about kind of how we communicate, not just what we say, that that can be really helpful.

Speaker 2: 15:06

Absolutely Love that answer. And then trauma and PTSD are among your specialties. How do you support clients dealing with these issues and what therapeutic techniques do you find most effective?

Speaker 1: 15:20

Oh my gosh. Okay, I also wanted to go back. You mentioned infidelity as well on your last question. I did yes, so I just want to leave that one hanging, got it. As far as infidelity for couples, yes, people can heal. I would say that is. The one piece that I want people to know is that I've worked with a lot of where infidelity or lack of trust or breaking trust has been a part of someone's story and a part of a couple's story, and I think what I want to let people know is that people can heal from that, relationships can heal from that. That healing can look like lots of different things and that is a very individual journey for people to go on and there is no one size fits all. There is no single direction that is the right direction for people to take, so I wouldn't encourage anybody. Give yourself a chance to figure it out, and that can take some time and that can be hard and the healing part is absolutely possible, I promise.

Speaker 2: 16:17

Is there a magic number of how long that can?

Speaker 1: 16:18

take. Oh, I know people love want me to give them numbers all the time and as with any, just about any question with therapy, is it all depends time. And as with any, just about any question with therapy, is it all depends and. And if you get yourself a therapist that has that, has expertise and has experience, you, you can find a path. Yeah, again, I don't know, I cannot guarantee which direction that path will go, I'm sure. And that is something that I.

Speaker 2: 16:42

I really don't want people to navigate alone.

Speaker 1: 16:45

Absolutely yeah, okay, so trauma.

Speaker 2: 16:49

Yes, yes, trauma and PTSD are among some of your specialties. How are you supporting your clients dealing with these issues and what therapeutic techniques are you using to maybe help them? And I'm sure it varies between each person, but if you could share that with us.

Speaker 1: 17:03

Sure, trauma takes lots of different forms and I have been really fortunate to work with a lot of veterans and so anything from combat trauma to people who have had an illness or have had a loved one with an illness, that what trauma does is. It changes your view of the world and often the anxiety that accompanies that says I'm no longer safe. And I think what is important about understanding anxiety is that the opposite of anxiety isn't calm, it's safe. And so when we are working with people who are understanding trauma and working through trauma, what we are looking for is how do we help you feel safe? How is it to understand that now is different than then?

Speaker 1: 17:52

And so a lot of your reactions and your responses to trauma and to triggers you don't need those anymore, no, but it's really hard to let those go, and so a lot of that is rebuilding safety and rebuilding your physical responses, and that can take a while. And again, having someone that can help you through that and say, hey, this is really common, you might be experiencing this. And people can say, oh my gosh, yeah, I do feel that way and just knowing that there's a name for it and there are ways that we can work you through. This can be really just nice to know that you're not alone.

Speaker 2: 18:30

It's nice to know that this is like there's this, there's space for this, there's understanding of this I want to ask you not only can people talk to you, but I was wondering if maybe you hold groups with other people with similar issues that they can maybe talk about it or make friends with, because I really feel like sometimes it's lonely and isolating and, yes, it's great to be able to talk to you, but it's also great to meet other people who are maybe around your age or maybe they're not part of your age and maybe you want to learn and see how maybe they've overcome certain things, maybe they're still working on things. Do you offer maybe group things like that?

Speaker 1: 19:02

I do not offer groups at this time. I can certainly get people in touch with groups and group facilitators because, yes, one of the things that is incredibly healing is that sense of community and, whereas I can absolutely provide space, but 50 minutes a week, 60 minutes a week like that's you, people need more than that, yeah, and so, yes, groups and community of people who you can find that that common ground with, can absolutely help with that feeling of lonely or isolation. I will say this for social media that has opened up a lot of areas for community where people, especially people who do not live in places where active and in-person groups are possible. There are places where people can find community. I want them to find community that is constructive. Yes, and facilitators are also are often really a good piece of that to help keep things constructive and moving forward and getting people what they need.

Speaker 2: 19:56

Absolutely. Yeah, awesome, great answer, I love it. Speaking of social media, what are you currently doing to, I guess, market and put out there the services that you provide and how you're able to help people? Are you an avid social media user? Are you going out to networking events? I know you just said it's a lot of word of mouth for people who are coming and getting to know you maybe new people but what's working, what's not?

Speaker 1: 20:21

I do zero social media.

Speaker 2: 20:23

Wow, wow, that's kind of shocking.

Speaker 1: 20:24

I do zero social media, wow, wow, that's kind of shocking, I know, I know. So I will say, in my field, marketing via social media can be kind of an ethical, just HIPAA. It's HIPAA. It's a really difficult thing to try to navigate and so in that sense, marketing via social media does not make a lot of sense, at least to me, for this particular field. Yes, and the other components I would say I have not necessarily needed as far as a marketing skill.

Speaker 1: 20:55

What places where I do think that I could probably grow and something that I would like to do would be more like simple things like this is how to language things, things like this is like this is how to language things and having more of a kind of a immediate presence and just little snippets of this is some wisdom or this. Keep, this has been coming into my office more recently and let's talk about how you can like, how you can communicate this need, how you communicate this. Can we get through this awkward conversation in a way that a lot of people just need the language for it? Yes, and so just as more snippets to help people, but I can't say that it's not something that I have used as a marketing Gotcha. But I absolutely can appreciate the need for it, for people to reach out and say is there a name for this, is there a way to work?

Speaker 2: 21:40

through this. I love it. I love asking this question to everybody because everyone has a different answer. I've had a couple people who are just like I don't do social media, or I'm just now starting and my team is making me get in front of the camera and do these dances or point here and point there, and I just I love hearing everybody's journey. Some people are just like I used to hate it and now I'm here Like I used to do it a lot. Now I have somebody else taking over and being that, doing that marketing in that sense. So I just love hearing everybody's journey and it sounds like you've got what's working for you and you're not opposed to it. So who knows, maybe it could change later or anything like that.

Speaker 1: 22:14

And when you asked me, you said is there anything that you want to talk about? Is there any marketing that you'd like to do within this interview? I thought I would really love to put out just a good word for therapy Do it and just say, if anything else, if people can listen to this and just take a step and say this could be helpful, like this doesn't need to be a scary thing to do. This is a resource that is that you have access to. Yes, we can find you, we can get you help. Yeah, it's not that scary, it doesn't need to be, and this can be beneficial. Yeah, if somebody picks up a phone and makes a phone call, then this is very much worth my time.

Speaker 1: 22:49

Oh my gosh. That's awesome. I love that and thank you for that.

Speaker 2: 22:51

Thank you for that opportunity. Absolutely Anytime, of course, and that kind of reminds me of like growing up. I remember the first time that I had to go to therapy and it was suggested to me and I was like no, like I don't want to go, like I at first, right, because I watch all these movies, and it's always like the problematic teenager, they're like I don't want to go, and then they show like the therapist, and it's like a very like strict and just like so how, how does that make you feel? And I'm just like I don't want to do that, like the movies and like everything makes me feel mad, and this makes me feel awkward.

Speaker 2: 23:22

Yes, exactly, it's just like every time. I'm just like well, they don't want to be there. Why are you suggesting I need that Like in the movies, right, and?

Speaker 2: 23:29

it gives you kind of this perception. But I love how you say like there's laughter in there, Like nowhere in the movies do they ever show when you're like talking to a counselor, a therapist, whatever. Like there's never laughter, it's always tears, it's always dark, it's always like pouring your heart out or them telling you something that you don't want to do. It's just completely opposite of the experience that you're telling me is happening at your office and that you're providing. So I just think that that's incredible and that's just to me. It's crazy sometimes.

Speaker 1: 23:57

Yeah, and that is certainly not unique to me. The most important thing as far as feeling having successful or the outcome of therapy is how you feel around your therapist. Like it's not. Do they do CBT? It's not. Do they do MDR? It's not necessarily. Do they have this or that specialty? It's. Does this person make me feel comfortable? Do I feel safe? Do I feel like I can tell them things? Do I feel like they care about me? And if you can find someone that can do that for you, that's what makes the biggest differences too, whether this feels like this is helping or not. So interview therapist, give it a shot. I would love to say that the first one you meet is going to be the one that sticks. Not necessarily. I am not everybody's cup of tea. I completely understand that. That's part of my spiel at the beginning is this is how I work. This may or may not fit. If it does, wonderful, we will have a lovely time. If not, let's find you somebody that can help you. I love that that is so true.

Speaker 2: 24:54

That is so so true. Thanks for sharing that. And then, as someone who works with LGBTQ plus clients, how do you create an inclusive and affirming therapeutic environment?

Speaker 1: 25:04

Look at my bookshelf which I would recommend anybody do. If you are going to a therapist and they have books on the shelf, look at the books. If you look at my bookshelf, you will see so many things about sexuality, about gender inclusivity and about social justice, about all of these pieces. So check my bookshelf. That's absolutely. You get to do that. You get to be curious about that. You get to look around, you get to ask people. You get to say, like, have you worked with someone like this before? Like this is what I'm coming with. What's your expertise? Because it is, and the judgment is people are scared. People are scared of being judged. People are scared of being told that they're different or they need to change or whatever the case may be. You want someone that says I want to know you, I'm excited to know you, I am honored to know you and to get to know your story. So you want someone that you can look around and say, okay, I think this person is okay, I think this person can help me.

Speaker 1: 26:08

It's safe to talk to. Yes, so check my bookshelf. Some people have said. Some of the people that I've seen have said when I'm in the parking lot, I kind of look at bumper stickers and see like where are people at here? That's so smart. So I think people really have learned how to assess for safety and how to assess for inclusivity. Wow. So, yes, put your spotty sense on. I completely that's like survival mode, I know. I completely appreciate and understand that you need that. Ask me any question you want. You are interviewing me and I want that to be very clear. I want, I want you to feel safe. So, yeah, use check things out.

Speaker 1: 26:47

That's okay, I'm not you are not offending me at all Awesome.

Speaker 2: 26:51

No, I love that Next time I go into anybody and I'm going to check their bookshelf so I'm like are they just filling that to like decorate? But like you're like no.

Speaker 1: 26:59

Check and see if the, if they're like, if there are bookmarks and things, if pages look like they've been used to, or dust. Yeah, check for dust, check for dust. That's okay. I will understand if you are looking around saying like, hmm, like, yes, check the art, check for the stickers, check for yeah, that's so smart One for stickers.

Speaker 2: 27:13

I've never heard of that before, but that is actually very smart.

Speaker 1: 27:17

People have learned. People have learned how to do their safety assessments, which I wish that wasn't, that didn't need to be the case, and I respect that. It is yeah, so of course, yeah.

Speaker 2: 27:26

You want to feel safe. And then, what unique mental health challenges do LGBTQ plus individuals face, and how does your practice, address these needs.

Speaker 1: 27:37

I, I think one of the things that, as as a therapist, you want like you want to be able to say tell people you feel like, feel safe.

Speaker 1: 27:44

You want to be able to tell people you feel safe.

Speaker 1: 27:45

You want to be able to say communicate with people, let people know who you are, be open about things like that, and, whereas I think that is wonderful advice in certain situations, I think it is really one of the things that you need to do.

Speaker 1: 27:59

As a responsible person who works with a diverse population, especially people in the LGBTQ plus population is not everywhere safe. Not everyone is safe. Your story is not going to be respected by everyone, and I need to understand that about the world in order to be able to listen to you as an advocate and as a responsible ally, and so I think that that is an important piece that I can do for clients and say I know not everywhere is safe for you and I hate that and it's not fair, and I'm working to change it as much as I can in my little pocket of the world, and I understand that there are limits to that safety and I want you to find your communities where you feel accepted and I understand if that's not always at your home. I understand if that's not always at your school or with certain people in your life and your story is important and those pieces of your story are important.

Speaker 2: 28:57

Wow.

Speaker 2: 28:58

Mic drop right there. I love that. No people, please. If you know anybody, if you see anybody, they look like maybe they need help, no matter who they are or what they need, please contact Dr M, because she provides a plethora of services and helps all kinds of people. So hit her up if you need or know anybody who needs help or is struggling mentally and needs somebody to talk to. Yeah, and then let's see. I've got a couple more questions here. Sure, talk to yeah, and then let's see. I've got a couple more questions here. You've given presentations on topics like millennials in the workplace and helicopter parenting. What insights have you shared in these talks and how do they relate to your clinical work?

Speaker 1: 29:36

Oh, millennials, my goodness, I love you so much. I think, oh, I think, millennials and well, any younger generation is going to get a bad rap from the older generation. That's how we work. It's those darn kids. Every generation has said that about the younger generation Correct my gosh. They're spoiled, my gosh, they don't know how to work.

Speaker 1: 29:56

And I think what is important to recognize is that things change and people are adapting to a very different environment now. And the millennial generation I love them. I think they are presented with a very unique set of challenges and I think they bring amazing things to the table. And I think, with any company, in any workplace, you are going to need to adapt to find a place where people can thrive, and it's not always going to look the same as it did, and that does not mean that anybody is doing anything wrong, but that adaptation is happening on all parts and is an important thing to be open to.

Speaker 1: 30:35

Yes, and helicopter parenting. I'm a parent myself, so I have a lot of compassion for parents who just want to clear the way of any obstacles. It is incredibly painful to watch your kids struggle and in working with parents, that's a big piece of how do I tolerate the discomfort of others. How do I manage my own discomfort when I see my kids struggle and how very important that is to allow kids to do yes? And so I think a lot of the parenting work I do is I just want my kid to be okay, yeah.

Speaker 1: 31:10

How do I help my kid just be okay, yes, and some of that is you got to get out of their way a little bit and you need a place. You need to create a very safe landing pad, but you got to let them jump. You got to let them jump off from that, have a good, safe place that they can come home, to Make sure that those doors and windows are open, because they need to build this on their own and it's going to maybe look different than you thought it was going to and there's grief in that and as a parent, I've experienced it. I see it and it's an incredibly difficult job and it's a very hard job to navigate and we need resources, we need help and we need parents to know. I know you're doing the best you can and let's figure out what the best for your kid is too, yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:58

Would you say that helicopter parenting or sistering or?

Speaker 1: 32:03

whatever I know Pick the word, Like bulldozer parents, helicopter parents, lawnmower parents or whatever.

Speaker 2: 32:10

Do you feel like that can kind of? I know you're or me even trying to do the best and have the best intention, but I feel like sometimes that ends up pushing them more away the closer we try to always prevent and everything for them. They're kind of just like oh my gosh, let me learn on my own. Like why do you have to try to prevent this for me? Like let me learn on my own.

Speaker 1: 32:30

Yeah, I think one of this is terrible. One of the most distancing things a parent can say to their kid, especially teens and up, is I understand, because what kids really want to hear is I don't. I don't understand. I'm respecting. This is new for you. Your experience of this. I don't understand. I would love to. I would love to have a relationship where I get to understand what's going on, and I know I need to sometimes do that on your terms.

Speaker 1: 33:02

Yes, and this is I'll put the caveat in, of course, if you're worried that your child is unsafe, yes, you get to jump in and keep your kid safe. But if you're worried your kid might be hurt in a relationship, or if you're worried a kid might fail a class, or if you're worried a kid might mess up or try something that is out of their league, or take a risk on something you're like I had no idea that was an interest of yours, or take a risk on something You're like I had no idea that was an interest of yours. Sometimes you've got to get out of their way and kids, your parents, are really doing the best they can. They really are, they really want the best for you and you've got to be patient with them, just like they're being patient with you.

Speaker 2: 33:39

Yes, Well said, well said. I feel like sometimes I'm helicopter sis and I need to just back away because I feel like I'm making it worse. Sometimes I'm just digging the grave deeper, so I need to step back.

Speaker 1: 33:50

I know Sometimes you just have to step back and say you, I think one of the most empowering things you can teach your kid is you make good decisions. I trust you, I trust that you will figure this out and I am here if you need me. I'm taking a deep breath on that one.

Speaker 1: 34:04

I know my husband will say he's like I just want them to feel strong and I was like they can't feel strong if you protect them from everything. Yes, you need to empower, and empower sometimes look different than protect. Teach your kids to be strong. Yes, they're going to need that long after they need you.

Speaker 2: 34:21

I love this. This is something for me to reflect on. I'm going to have to play this part over and over. Well, all of it over to listen, because I get in my own way of trying to do the right thing. But sometimes it's like, oh my gosh, can I live my life? Why are you? I'm helicopter sis, I'm telling you.

Speaker 1: 34:37

Anyway let's chase the subject. It's all out of love.

Speaker 2: 34:48

I respect that. That All right. A couple of questions here. I promise you are certified in EMDR and the Prepare Enrich program. How have these certifications enhanced your ability to support clients and can you share with us what EMDR is Sure?

Speaker 1: 34:57

sure, emdr is the Eye Movement, desensitization and Resourcing, so I think I get that acronym right. So what it is? It's an intervention used for trauma especially, and it uses bilateral stimulation. So you get buzzers in your hand or you look at a light or a finger that goes across and basically what you're doing is you are stimulating the left and right of your brain. Wow, I know this is going to sound a little woo-woo, so I promise you it is very well researched. This is going to sound a little woo-woo, so I promise you it is very well researched.

Speaker 1: 35:28

What it does is for people who struggle with traumatic responses. Basically, when people get stuck in trauma, they respond to those memories as if they are happening. They don't have the distance from them. And what EMDR does is it helps you file those memories appropriately so that you can think about them without having the same physical and visceral responses to them. So it is this way that we can help people who are very much living that trauma over and over again, again, when now is different than then, we can help you, your brain, file that away more appropriately so that you've got some distance, so that those memories are not so scary or so upsetting. And there's a standardized protocol that we go through. There's a lot of work that we do to help people prep for that. The wonderful thing is that it can be done and it doesn't take a lot of sessions to help people feel better.

Speaker 2: 36:23

Wow.

Speaker 1: 36:24

So we use it for trauma. We can use it to help people feel better. Wow, so we use it for trauma. We can use it to help people who want to prepare for something in the future, and it is a very interesting experience. I have done it. I have done the buzzers. You have to do that as part of the training and it is helpful. It is helpful for a lot of people, so it's a great modality for trauma work for people.

Speaker 2: 36:48

That's awesome that you offer and have that certification where you can help people. Maybe they've been curious about it or they've never tried it, and it's been like a life-changing experience for them.

Speaker 1: 36:58

I have people say that I'm thinking about these things and I'm not as scared anymore. I'm like, yeah, good. And they're like how did that happen? And I'm thinking about these things and I'm not as scared anymore. I'm like, yeah, good, and I'm like how did that happen? I was like your brain is an amazing thing and I wish I could give you exactly how we know it works. But the brain is really complicated. Oh yes. I know, we know that this can work for some people. Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 2: 37:18

Is there anything that I have not touched on that perhaps you would like to share about yourself, your business, your industry, your clients? You have the floor.

Speaker 1: 37:26

Oh, thank you. Yeah, you know, we really have touched on a lot of what I feel is hopefully an important piece to introduce people to therapy and say, please, please, find an open door. We're really here for you and thank you so much for this opportunity. I very much appreciate it. Yeah, yes, and if anybody has any further questions, if they're curious just about therapy in general, please reach out. I am happy to be a resource.

Speaker 2: 37:48

Where can they find you?

Speaker 1: 37:50

Oh, you are welcome to find me at. My website is mdreilingcom, or for the clinic it's threeleafpsychologycom, and there are some blog posts on there which are fun reads and give you a little bit more insight into me, into how I work, as well as ways to get in touch with us.

Speaker 2: 38:06

Okay, my final question how did you come up with the name of your business?

Speaker 1: 38:11

Oh, I went through many iterations but that had been one that I had thought of from a my thought. If I were to start something, what would I name it? And our? The three leaves for us are courage, compassion and change, and we also work, for we do assessment and counseling and training. So really kind of try to work the three into what we are doing and also dryling the first. Dry means three, so that also is a piece of it. So little pieces everywhere.

Speaker 2: 38:37

Awesome. Thank you for sharing that with me. Yes, you're so welcome. Yeah, I appreciate your time and thank you so much for being here, and I hope that this episode reaches somebody who maybe they're on the lookout and they can hit up Dr M now and get that counseling that they've always wanted but haven't found yet. So thank you so much, thank you. Thank you as well.