Speaker 1: 0:30

My name is Melanie Hamelman and my business is Hamelman Law. What do I do? I do mostly estate planning, so like wills and trusts and powers of attorney, and then I also do business planning, so like a business formation, if you need operating agreements, employment agreements, bylaws, things like that. And then I also do premarital agreements and postmarital agreements.

Speaker 2: 0:57

Okay, very nice. A lot of scary topics, stuff, but great things.

Speaker 1: 1:02

Yeah, I know, my husband always says how do you do this all day. You're talking to people about what happens when either they get divorced or when they die.

Speaker 2: 1:11

Yeah, I know Beautiful topics, so like, especially like in the mornings or whatever like how can I help you? Yes, so I would like to write a will, just in case that I die.

Speaker 1: 1:27

Right, it's, it's a weird. Um. It's a weird conversation to start, but since I enjoy talking to people and since I, you know, have um a complicated family dynamic with my own family, um, I think it makes it pretty easy because I can use my you know, my family, like my husband and my kids, or I can use my family like you know, my parents and my siblings, as sort of an example for you know how you can set things up, if you know if you have a different situation.

Speaker 2: 1:50

Yeah, and how many people do you have on your team?

Speaker 1: 1:52

It's just me, wow, yep, it's just me. I started my own practice when I was I guess I was six months postpartum with my oldest Wow, and I decided I wanted to be able to set my own schedule. I wanted to be able to see my kids, because prior to that I did litigation and then I did like business transactions and stuff and so I was working a lot longer hours and that's not super conducive to getting to see your kids. No, no.

Speaker 1: 2:25

So I decided I wanted to go ahead and start my own practice, and so I have sort of kept it just me while the kids are little. So both my kids are still in elementary school, yeah, and so you know, I'm the class mom. I like to go to the class parties, all that stuff. I'm sure they appreciate that they do, and while they do I want to be able to go. Yes, and someday they'll be like nah, we're good, right, exactly.

Speaker 2: 2:52

Got to cherish those moments while you have them For sure. And what made you get into this industry? Like, what's the backstory on that where you just did you watch like an episode of something or just?

Speaker 1: 3:02

like.

Speaker 1: 3:02

I want to be that lawyer, so um I actually my my first choice of career was um I wanted to work for, like a luxury fashion house, which is totally the opposite, right, um. So I did that for a little while and it was great. But it wasn't sort of um ultimately, where I thought it made sense for me to be um after seeing what the industry looks like and everything and seeing that, you know, everything was in New York, right. So I did an internship in New York. I lived up there for a while and then I moved back to Houston. An internship in New York. I lived up there for a while and then I moved back to Houston.

Speaker 1: 3:38

I'm from Texas. I moved back to Houston and I did some. You know, I helped them sort of figure out how to get one of their stores worked out a little bit better. And then I decided you know what my parents have always told me I would be a great lawyer, probably because I did nothing but argue with them as a kid. But you know, I thought I'm going to, I'm going to go ahead and do it, I'm going to go ahead and go to law school. So I went to law school and then I was like set on being a litigator.

Speaker 1: 4:09

I was set on being in court every day, which I did for a little while, and that was, you know, my first job out of law school was litigation. I was in the courtroom like every week. I was there every week in the courtroom and it was awesome. But again, once I decided we were ready to have kids, it was sort of like how am I going to see them if I'm in the courtroom?

Speaker 2: 4:35

every day, or you?

Speaker 1: 4:36

know, working 18, 20 hour days, so um, but I did a lot of um. I did a lot of wills and trust litigation and then I did um business litigation and so it sort of helped me take things from seeing the problems that people have with wills and trusts and business formation, business documents, and turn that into a solution for the wills and the trusts and the business formation and documents.

Speaker 2: 5:02

Absolutely, and so I guess I love that you took into consideration about like your family, like I want to make sure, I'm there for my kids. Sure, sometimes that can be hard or you're not thinking about that in the moment. But I guess is that why you kind of pivoted to having your own firm as opposed to joining one.

Speaker 1: 5:19

Yeah, so I had worked for a couple of different firms, um, while I, before I had him, um, I actually worked at a firm right around the corner from here um whenever I was pregnant with him. Um, and the hours just weren't as flexible as I needed, and it's just long hours.

Speaker 1: 5:39

That's what it is being. We call it a baby lawyer. Right, For your first few years you're a baby lawyer, so you have longer hours and you work on whatever they tell you to work on, and I just I don't know, wanted some more flexibility. Yeah, I know, and you got that and you're on your right schedule.

Speaker 2: 5:58

Now, yeah, absolutely I love it. And now, um, as a military veteran spouse, what unique challenges have you faced in your legal career and how have these experiences influenced your practice?

Speaker 1: 6:10

Sure, um. So when my husband and I started dating, I was in law school, so we didn't I didn't have to do the moving around thing a lot like a lot of military spouses do, because so I was in law school and he was in. He deployed shortly thereafter to Afghanistan. So he was there for a year and then when he got back I told him you know, you find a job and that's where I'll take the bar. So that was sort of. The only thing that was tough for me was figuring out, like where am I going to take him, you know? So I had already registered in Texas where I was in law school, and then I was like, you know, we sort of figured he would end up here in Northern Virginia, because that's where everybody goes when they get out of the military, because that's where everybody goes when they get out of the military.

Speaker 1: 6:58

And so I just, you know, told him, if you find a job there before I have to like and I can still register at that point to take the bar, then I'll do that. So that's how I ended up up here. And then, as far as taking that into consideration with, like, my general practice, I think what it's helped me do is be a little bit more flexible for people who are in the military and who are, like, trying to deploy. I've had a couple of people come to me and say like, hey, I'm leaving in two weeks. Um, can you help me?

Speaker 2: 7:24

And you know.

Speaker 1: 7:25

So for those people, I will, you know, I'll make concessions and I'll, you know, try to turn things around quickly, um, because I know that that's a tough spot to be in. You know, and while the military does provide basic powers of attorney and basic wills the word basic is really like maybe an overstatement of what they provide. So, you know, if it's somebody who has kids or who has you know, or who was married for a second time and has, you know, children with a prior spouse and, you know, is now married to someone else, then that basic you know, the, what the military provides, those basic documents aren't really going to work.

Speaker 2: 8:06

Yeah, no. So I love that you also have firsthand experience when it comes to military and like that turnaround time in two weeks you get it you know what it's like. You know you have that deadline to work with. So I'm sure that they appreciate that and they're like okay, I feel comfortable with her, like asking her this because she gets it. She's been in my shoes.

Speaker 1: 8:23

Absolutely. Yeah, that's definitely been a big help and I've had. I have a lot of people who are either military veterans or retired in the military that say, you know, hey, I saw that your husband was in the army and that's why we, you know, decided we wanted to, yeah, come to you, because you know you get those sort of you get the moving around all the time. You get the hey, I've got this. You know I've got a TSP or I've got a, you know, some government retirement and so yeah, Cool.

Speaker 2: 8:52

And now you mentioned earlier before you had a complicated family dynamic. Can we touch on that? Can I ask about that? Are you okay with that? Yeah, absolutely. Can I ask what? What happened? What's going on?

Speaker 1: 9:04

Um, so it's um, so we have. So my family is, uh, my mom and my dad are actually my mom and my stepdad, um, but you know my stepdad has been my dad since I was six, um, and then you know, I have some step siblings and there's, you know, there's always weird stuff that comes with that and plus, you just have to account for different things when you have, you know, kids from each parent, um, and then on my husband's side he's one of the eight kids, wow, right, um. So that's a lot to account for.

Speaker 2: 9:38

Also, and even though you know everybody gets along great and everybody's very close, um, it's still a lot of moving parts, yeah absolutely no, and that whole dynamic can be a little bit, as you said, complicated, because maybe sometimes you're butting heads, you're not saying eye to eye, so it's kind of like learning how to maneuver your life with these situations, exactly.

Speaker 1: 10:01

Exactly. And then another thing that I use, that I talk to people about all the time, is so I actually drafted my in-laws estate plan and so a lot of times people are like, you know, I don't want to be rude, but like I don't want to put my son-in-law in my trust. You know, everything is supposed to go to my daughter, to my grandkids, and I tell them all the time I drafted my in-laws trust and I skipped myself. Right, because that's, I don't belong in there, that's not for me, that's for my husband and my kids. And so, you know, I tell people all the time I, you know, I believe strongly enough in that that I skipped myself.

Speaker 1: 10:39

And so I think that's a you know that's been helpful for people to understand is that you know it's not mean, it's just you know, sort of the natural progression of things where you want things to go.

Speaker 2: 10:49

Exactly no, and the fact that you can have those conversations, cause I feel like some people feel a little bit like not icky but kind of rude to you, but it's their right to do so. It's their assets.

Speaker 1: 11:00

People feel awkward about it. They feel bad. They're like you know, I love my son-in-law or I love my daughter-in-law, and my in-laws are great and I love them and we have a very good relationship. But that's just not mine and I didn't give them the option to factor me in you. But that's just not mine and I didn't give them the option to factor me in. You know I I said you know, this is how I'm going to do it.

Speaker 2: 11:22

I think it makes more sense to skip me and you know all the other in-laws yeah, Love it, Thank you. And then your firm emphasizes personalized legal services. How do you ensure each client receives tailored support and what impact does this have on client satisfaction?

Speaker 1: 11:36

Um, so generally it leads to higher client satisfaction. That's why my Google reviews are good Um right.

Speaker 1: 11:43

Um, but it's because it's just me, right? So they're not talking to um. I do have somebody who answers the phones because I I do like schedule blocking. So if I'm drafting, I don't want somebody to call me in the middle of it because I want to. You know, I want to get my drafts done. If I'm drafting, I don't want somebody to call me in the middle of it because I want to. You know, I want to get my drafts done while I'm, you know in it while I'm thinking about it, while I've got a cohesive thought going, but it's just me.

Speaker 1: 12:04

So you know they can call, they can leave a message with the you know the people that answer the phone. They can send me an email, they can shoot me a text, um, and you know everybody's just working with me. So I think it, I think it makes a huge difference that you know they can just call me and ask me questions.

Speaker 2: 12:24

Having that one-on-one connection that you're the first person. They talk to and you're going to be the person that they're working with.

Speaker 1: 12:29

Yeah, and I'm the person who shows up when we do the signing and so, like I mean, I'm I'm there for you know.

Speaker 2: 12:38

Step one or step a hundred, yeah, Step a hundred. Woo Love that. And then you've discussed the importance of avoiding probate. Could you explain why this is significant and how you assist clients in achieving this?

Speaker 1: 12:49

Sure, um. So as far as probate goes, it's like a scary buzzword, right. So like nobody knows what probate is, except you know, maybe us. But basically, probate everybody's estate at some point will have to go through probate, right? So probate is just the process of filing a death certificate and a will with the county court where you live when you pass. So if your assets are all in a trust or if you have beneficiary designations so, like you know, a life insurance policy, you can designate a beneficiary, a retirement policy, you can designate a beneficiary. Even checking and savings you can. So if you've either done that or if you've put all of your assets into a trust, then the court says, oh, we see that you have this trust or we see that you have these beneficiary designations, so we don't actually have to take your assets and figure out what to do with them and then split them up. You've already done it for us. So they just say, okay, great, they've got this done, we're going to sign off on it and let everybody do what they need to do.

Speaker 1: 13:51

Yeah, so it sort of reduces your time in the court system, which generally reduces the cost, right?

Speaker 2: 13:58

Because you don't have to have an attorney, you don't have to go to hearings, you don't have to go to motions, so yeah, and I have a question because you mentioned it and then I know it's something that you work on and it might be a little bit off topic or maybe you've heard of this in the news or articles or online, but you know that whole thing with Britney Spears and the power of attorney that sounds really scary, Like. What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 1: 14:21

Yeah, so, um, so the reason that people get a power of attorney right the whole point of a power of attorney is to identify who, um, depending on so it's generally a durable power of attorney right Is is the person that makes your financial decisions when you're incapacitated. So, basically, when the court or the doctors decided she was incapacitated, this POA kicked in. And so then what the POA says and usually it's used for, like you know, if you're in a medically induced coma, if you're in a car accident, if you have dementia or Alzheimer's or something, that's generally the purpose of it, right, it's to function in that capacity. So in the Britney Spears issue. So what happened was, you know, they decided she was incapacitated, she didn't have the mental capacity to make her own decisions, and then this POA kicked in mental capacity to make her own decisions. And then this POA kicked in and her dad became her conservator.

Speaker 1: 15:25

Yeah, do I think she needed a conservator? Probably. Do I think it's good to just have one person make all the decisions and be in control of that volume of assets? Probably not. Yeah, all the decisions and be in control of that volume of assets? Probably not, yeah. So there's another thing that you can do with it. So what happened is he became the conservator, which put him in charge of her trust.

Speaker 1: 15:43

Yes, so in a trust, what you can do is you can also appoint what's called a trust protector. So you have the trustee, who would be like the dad right, and a trust protector is saying we want to also identify a corporate trustee, so like a company that does this for their job, right, like a Schwab or something like that, and so you identify them as the trust protector and they get to say that's not a good use of her money. Or you know this makes sense, but that investment doesn't make sense. Or you know you're spending too much on this or you're taking too much commission, and also you can put in there how much the trustee gets.

Speaker 1: 16:27

So, you know, a lot of times for family trustees, people say I don't want to compensate them because they're also a beneficiary. So I think, do I think it made sense for her to have a conservator? Probably. Do I think everything was done right? Probably not.

Speaker 2: 16:45

That's. That's crazy that they didn't mention or talk about these things and they were just like let's just have one. You would think that somebody at such a high level would be taken care of in that way.

Speaker 1: 16:54

So that's kind of strange. It's very strange that he had so much control and I don't know. I mean you got to think there had to have been some cap or some like determination as to what the amount of trustee compensation was. But I mean I don't know, maybe somebody was drafting up legal documents and she was signing them and not reading them.

Speaker 2: 17:17

I don't know, that's so sad. I'm sure conversations like this are scary for some people to have too. What is something that you advise or tips that you can give to them, like having their best interest? So something like that possibly could not happen, because you hear all the time all these things and it kind of scares you.

Speaker 1: 17:36

Yeah, so you know I tell people all the time, if you, if you have a person that you trust, just trust them. You know, like, if it's like for you know, my husband and I we have family members that we trust completely. You know like I feel like, if I trust you enough to give you my kids, if something were to happen to me, I don't care about anything else. Right, and that's what I tell my clients all the time too. We don't care about most of us who have kids. We don't care about the money, we just want the money to take care of the kids.

Speaker 1: 18:06

Um, and so you know that's sort of the conversation that I go through with them is, you know, you can only plan for so much. But so a lot of times what I do is say you know, let's leave room to be flexible. So you know, like if I were to have my brother-in-law be my trustee if something happened to us, um, I trust him enough to know that if I gave him some discretion to, you know, be flexible with what they got money for, or like if they wanted to invest in something, that he would be able to exercise discretion in a way that that makes sense, you know, financially for them.

Speaker 1: 18:43

And so you know, a lot of times if you don't have someone that you trust that much, then I tell people, leave it to a corporate trustee and just let a corporate trustee manage it, because then they can use their professional opinion right To identify whether or not a certain investment or expense makes sense. But if you have somebody that you trust, I think that I mean as long as you sort of talk to them and identify, like what your goals are for your kids, if you're leaving them assets to take care of kids, I think you just have to go with it, because these documents are just a fail safe. I don't want somebody else to take care of my kids.

Speaker 2: 19:24

I don't want somebody else to manage my assets for my kids.

Speaker 1: 19:28

This is just in case, Because the best option is assets for my kids.

Speaker 1: 19:29

This is just in case yes, you know because the best option is me and my husband right, it's not my brother-in-law or my sister-in-law even though they're lovely, it's always you and that's what I have to talk to clients about all the time. And it helped after I made my own right, because then I had the ability to say, look, I did this too, and it was terrible. I know Right, I have people who I trust completely and who I think would do a great job taking care of my kids, but it's still not me. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:57

Yeah, you just have to plan for the worst. Unfortunately, because it would be worse if you didn't, honestly, because then the court gets to choose and nobody wants that. You want that choice at least, right? Yes, absolutely. And then can I ask what a corporate trustee is? I'm sorry, yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:11

Yeah, so a corporate trustee is just a company that's like somebody, like Schwab or you know, bank of America, merrill Lynch.

Speaker 1: 20:19

A lot of these places have, like trust administration departments and so what they do is they have, they have a fee schedule that says, like, if you want us to manage the trust and you know, make the payments to the beneficiaries or on the beneficiary's behalf, we either take a flat fee or we take a percentage. Um, but then they will just do everything. Okay, they will just. They will make the payments, they will file the taxes, they will make sure the beneficiary gets whatever they need. So, like you know, if it was for my kids, they would take care of educational expenses, medical expenses, you know insurance, you know all of the youth sports, yeah.

Speaker 2: 21:02

All the things? Yeah, all of the things. Yeah, thank you, I wasn't aware. I was like, wait, let me verify and clarify this. Sure, all right, and then let us see in your practice, how do you approach incapacity planning I think we already touched on this, actually, but if you want to touch on it more and what key considerations do you advise clients to keep in mind?

Speaker 1: 21:25

Yeah, so some of the things that you want to think about for incapacity are the medical power of attorney and the durable power of attorney. So the medical power of attorney can also have a living will built in. So living will is like where you get to make some of your own decisions right, like if you want to stay on life support, if you want to, you know, if you want to stay on life support for just a certain period of time. So, like a lot of people say, I want to be on life support, but only long enough for my family to come pay their respects.

Speaker 1: 21:55

And then I you know, don't want to do it anymore, so you can also do organ donation. You can identify, you know, if you want to be buried or cremated, things like that. But it's really the medical power of attorney and the durable power of attorney. So it's the people that are going to make your medical decisions and your financial decisions. If you're not able to. So a lot of times what I tell people, too, is they don't have to be the same person. So like, if you have somebody in your family who's a nurse, that probably makes sense for a good you know, that's a good person for a medical power of attorney, and if you have somebody in your family who's a financial planner, that's probably a good durable power of attorney. These are good tips, actually.

Speaker 2: 22:30

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 22:30

So they don't have to be the same person. You can also choose more than one. So, like for my in-laws, you know they got all the kids and so they identified. You know, a few of my kids can do it If you can reach any of these. You know, if you can reach any of them, any of them can make the decision Okay. So it doesn't have to be one person. We can also draft for the future right. So, like for myself and my husband, my kids are only 8 and 10. I know they're still so little. So what we did is we said you know, once the youngest turns 25, then they take over as the backup to each other. So, like right now, my husband would be my power of attorney, medical power of attorney, and then one of my in-laws or my sister would be my backup. But then after my daughter, who's the youngest, turns 25, then they can be that backup together.

Speaker 2: 23:30

Yeah. So here you speak and talk about all of this and obviously you're well-prepared. This is your. You help others, right? When is a good time to start thinking about all of this and planning and deciding, like is there a time? Are we late? Are we early?

Speaker 1: 23:44

No, you're never late, you're never early. You know, I didn't even finish mine until my youngest was two, probably because I was doing everybody else's, but you know. But it's not a fun thing to think about, especially if you do have kids. It's not a fun thing to think about who's going to take care of them if you're not there. But you know, I also get people who say you know, my youngest is 20 and I haven't ever done an estate plan, I haven't ever made a will. Is it too late now? Should I even bother? And the answer is yeah, because if your youngest is 20, you probably have a pretty good amount of equity in your home, you probably have a pretty decent retirement and you want to decide where all that stuff goes, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 24:28

No, this is good to know. Maybe some people are just like okay, maybe it's not too late, Maybe I need to call up Melanie right here, never too late. Never. And then, when assisting entrepreneurs with business formation, what common pitfalls do you help them avoid and what best practices do you recommend?

Speaker 1: 24:45

So pitfalls. A lot of times what happens is I get people that come to me and say, hey, my tax guy set up my business and I don't know what else I need. He told me now I have to call an attorney. Or he told me I have to talk to somebody to figure out what else I need. So that's fine, anyone can file on the State Corporation Commission website. That's fine, anyone can file on the State Corporation Commission website. But if there's more than one person that's involved in running the business, you've got to have a governing document. A governing document is just a document that says what happens if something goes wrong. Right, and if it's just like for my business, it's just me. So I have one, but it doesn't really matter right.

Speaker 1: 25:30

It doesn't really matter if it's a. If you're a, you know single member, llc. If you're a single um, you know single shareholder S, corp, um. If you're a sole proprietor, it doesn't really matter so much because you're the only person. What are you going to get a fight with yourself? I mean, maybe, maybe it happens. Yeah, but if you have more than one person, you sort of need that to identify what happens if you don't agree on something.

Speaker 2: 25:55

No, this is great advice once again. Yeah, and then I know you do all the stuff. You hear a lot of people's stories or issues that they're coming to you with or not even issues, but like problems, and you have solutions. Sure, how do you balance, I guess, maybe not taking some of that home with you? And setting boundaries.

Speaker 1: 26:16

Yeah, so, um, I think schedule blocking was a big thing for me once I identified that like I have to have my drafting time, I have to have my client consultation time, I have to have admin time and then I don't take any calls once the kids are home from school. I love that, yeah, because you know I can fit in most of my even drafting. I can even do in the evenings once they're asleep. But I can fit in all of my client consultations, I can fit in signings and everything while they're at school so that when they're home if I have to do stuff it's just on the computer. I'm not trying to have an actual conversation, because the second you get on the phone as a parent, the kids start screaming mom.

Speaker 2: 26:57

Yes, yes, I believe it. Yeah, I know. I grew up with two sisters, two brothers, and I knew how it went myself. I'm like mom, hello, you're not listening to me.

Speaker 1: 27:06

Yeah, I know, even my mom says the same thing. The second I got on the phone, you started calling my name?

Speaker 2: 27:11

Yep, it's just like clockwork, I know. And then how do you manage the demands of running a law firm, since you're the one who's calling all the shots, while maintaining a fulfilled personal life? I know we just talked about the boundaries and scheduling. What advice do you have for others striving for this balance?

Speaker 1: 27:30

First, it's tough. There's a lot of stuff about running the business that I don't like, you know. I want to just do my lawyer work and not do anything else. But I also am very type A and so I like to be the one who, you know, makes sure that I have all the things that I need and I'm the one who, you know, talks to the you know software people to make sure that my platform is running how it's supposed to run and everything. So it's a tough balance. I I, you know spend a lot of time while they're at sports emailing. You know when last night my daughter had gymnastics and I was sending client emails, so you know I try to. Whenever they're at home and we're all doing family stuff, I try to just do that. But you know there's always going to be a little bit of overlap, especially now, since everybody's emails come to their phones.

Speaker 2: 28:25

Exactly, we always have those little buggers everywhere.

Speaker 1: 28:27

I know.

Speaker 2: 28:28

But I know what are you going to do. I know, but I know what are you going to do. I know and I just want to say I like your touch on like being there for your kids, because sometimes my parents weren't there. Did you have kind of that experience as well and told yourself, like I don't want to be like that, I'm going to set boundaries, I'm going to be there, or were your parents like that as well and you're like I want to pass that on.

Speaker 1: 28:45

Yeah, my parents were there all the time. Um, so my mom was, my mom was the room mom. My mom was, you know, up at the school every day that we wanted her to be up there, Even through high school. We'd be like, hey, mom, can you come volunteer at the school today? I'm on it. Uh, exactly, and so my mom was always there. My dad never missed anything that we didn't, that we wanted him to be there for Um, yeah, my um. So you know, I had a good role model showing me what I wanted to do so yeah, that was that was.

Speaker 1: 29:18

You know. I wanted to emulate that, I wanted to be able to do those things and you know, with my husband's job, he can't really do that. He can't really, you know, just take off in the middle of the day, um, and so I can.

Speaker 2: 29:32

I love that. Yeah, good for you. They're going to have good memories and appreciate that. And then they're going to pass it on, hopefully, to their kids.

Speaker 1: 29:38

I think that's so beautiful I love it.

Speaker 2: 29:40

You had good role models, for sure. Um, and is there anything that I have not touched on that perhaps you would like to share, whether it's in regards about yourself, your business, your personal life, you have the floor.

Speaker 1: 29:50

So I think the only thing is the reason. So I started initially doing just the business planning and business formation and stuff, and then my business clients were needing estate plans to like determine what happened with their business once they passed. And then from there it turned into well, I have a business, but now I'm about to get married and this is my second marriage.

Speaker 1: 30:15

And what do I do? Um, so you know, people are like you do, like the things that you do don't aren't really related, but the only reason I do all those things now is because they overlap so much that there was no, it didn't make sense for me to do one without doing the other.

Speaker 2: 30:34

Yeah, might as well like, since they're overlapping, just get it done.

Speaker 1: 30:38

Yeah, and so that's how I do. That's sort of the approach that I take with estate planning and with business planning too, is, if I'm going to do the business formation, I'm also going to do the operating agreement and I'm going to do, like, the EIN filing and the state tax ID filing, and if I do an estate plan, I'm going to do, you know, the trust, the will, the power of attorney and the medical power of attorney, because otherwise what you're doing, or what I felt like I was doing, was giving you a thousand piece puzzle and keeping the last three pieces and saying this is good enough, try to find it.

Speaker 2: 31:11

I'm like I can't find those last three pieces.

Speaker 1: 31:18

Work it out, yeah, and it doesn't make any sense. So that's why, you know, I started doing all the things that I felt like needed to be done to give someone like a complete, you know, a complete package to manage the things in their life. And then, you know, I sort of carried that over into my estate planning and business planning practices.

Speaker 2: 31:32

That is awesome too, because sometimes they're like, oh okay, that's all. Well, I have to also do this. Let me go see if they can help me.

Speaker 1: 31:38

It's a one-stop shop right here, yep, so you can just do everything at once, love it?

Speaker 2: 31:42

Yeah, all right. And then my final question. Sure, I'd like to ask everybody this Do you have a quote saying or a mantra that has inspired you in any way? Or maybe somebody told you something that resonated with?

Speaker 1: 31:54

you Um, do I have a quote? Um, I don't know that I have a quote. It's you know, it's the same as everybody else. It's the. You can do hard things and and you know, I tell my kids that too I'm like I know it's hard but that doesn't you're going to have to put in the work but you can get there. You know, like you know, when my daughter was four and trying to figure out how to do a cartwheel, it's the same thing Right.

Speaker 1: 32:19

Or my son, who is right now has a broken ankle and he tripped. He's just a little boy.

Speaker 1: 32:26

I don't know, um, but you know he has a broken ankle so he's been in a boot and now he's in a brace and he's like you know what, if, whenever baseball starts back up, I'm you know I'm not doing as well as the other kids Well, you're going to have to work at it, it's the same thing. So I think, ever, as long as you can you know power through as long as you, you know, I think as long as you can, you know power through as long as you, you know, can try to persevere, I think you can really accomplish anything.

Speaker 2: 32:54

Yes, that's a good one. You're always able to do it, whether you believe in it or not. You got to. The key word, like you said, is putting in the work.

Speaker 1: 33:01

I agree. You just have to work at it, nothing's going to come easy.

Speaker 2: 33:08

Anyone who says I just lucked into it is Fibbing, into it is fibbing is lying. Yeah, yes, no, you're absolutely right.

Speaker 1: 33:15

Those are great um nuggets of wisdom yeah, and I appreciate you being here today. Thanks so much for having me.

Speaker 2: 33:17

Yeah, anytime, this was fun. Yeah, thank you, thank you.