Speaker 1: 0:31

My name is Casey Marganow. I am the broker and owner of Casey Marganow Fine Homes. We are a boutique brokerage designed to work in the higher end of the marketplace. What we do is we're working with more expensive properties, and more expensive properties sell different than normal homes. They need more marketing, they need more advertising and they need a more professional presentation. Yes, because when somebody comes into a house, they don't understand the difference between a million and a half house and a $2 million house, because the land's the same if they're in the same location. Yes, the finish is different. Yeah, so that's kind of what we do. I mean, I started in this business in 1989. I mean I started in this business in 1989. So 91 was the first crash in the real estate market and then I lived through that.

Speaker 2: 1:44

You've seen something.

Speaker 1: 1:46

And flourished through it. And then in 2005, we obviously had another peak in the marketplace and we crashed by 2007. I started doing the videos in 2006.

Speaker 2: 2:05

You were ahead of the game.

Speaker 1: 2:07

Yeah, I was. I mean, it wasn't that other real estate agents couldn't do it, because it was talked about and I talked about a lot within our industry, but they just didn't want to do it. They didn't want to take the time to do it To do it.

Speaker 2: 2:27

Yeah, for some people it can be a bit tedious or intimidating, right?

Speaker 1: 2:31

Well, they also have to know what to say and they have to be in front of the camera and they need to talk about the house. Yeah, and some of them don't. And if you do a video like I've seen a lot of videos and they're very produced, so they're, they got music behind them and they've got, um, uh, you know pictures that are, you know, to try to make it look sexy, houses look that way, but the problem is is they're not informational.

Speaker 2: 3:04

They're missing. That, yeah, okay.

Speaker 1: 3:07

So for every house that I sell, I get around before it sells 5,000 to 8,000 views. I don't get a million views like a cute kitty bouncing on a ball or something like that, but these are informational videos and they're about a specific property and what happens is people that are looking for the property, they're the ones that watch them and they're the ones that watch them and they're the ones that find them and those people will watch them all the way through.

Speaker 2: 3:42

Now.

Speaker 1: 3:44

I get about 70% to 75% people watch them from start to finish. I've even had a person that asked me. You know they wanted to see the property they were coming from out of state. They met me at the property. I started explaining about the property. They go oh, we watched your video seven times, wow, and I get all the data from it. So I kind of knew that somebody in that area was looking, was watching it, watching a lot, yeah, and so it's a good way of presenting your homes and creating value, and the customers like it Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 4:28

So, yeah, no, you understand the power of marketing and using video, and since 2006,. I'd say you're really ahead of the game, because I don't think people understood just how powerful it got to where we are now today. How do you implement that with your business? Like filming videos, are you also putting them out on social media besides YouTube, like Instagram, tiktok? Where all are you putting this?

Speaker 1: 4:51

Well, most of it I do on YouTube because I can attach them to the MLS, I can put them on to Zillow and things like that. I can put videos on it. We are breaking some down and putting them on other social media, their social media, but, to tell you the truth, you know the the fact that they will only give you a certain amount of time really doesn't do what I want it to do, and um and so I'd rather direct people to the full length video than try to get them a little shot a little snippet.

Speaker 1: 5:35

Yeah, so and really my kind of customers. They're not on Instagram, they're not on TikTok, they're on Facebook you know, so I mean we dabble with those types of things every once and again. Yeah, but right now the market's been so good that properties don't necessarily stay on Now. I don't think that's going to continue into the future that where houses sell in the weekend like they are right now, and I believe that the market has another change going on right now. You've heard about the lawsuit.

Speaker 2: 6:30

Yes, I have In August last year In August yeah.

Speaker 1: 6:33

So it's changing the whole way that brokers and real estate agents work.

Speaker 2: 6:40

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 6:42

Because now the seller's only responsible to pay the agent that they hire and not the buyer, and most real estate agents are trying to keep everything the same as it was, but that's starting to change, yeah, as customers and consumers and sellers and buyers are starting to learn what this really means. I believe that the real estate business will become more like the commercial business and they won't necessarily pay a co-broker all the time.

Speaker 2: 7:24

Yeah Well, I kind of trust you because you've been through a lot of things as a real estate agent. You've gone through two crashes. Do you foresee that happening again?

Speaker 1: 7:33

Again.

Speaker 2: 7:33

Yeah, like anytime soon, yep, ooh, y'all Again. Yeah, like anytime soon, yep, ooh Y'all heard that. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1: 7:41

All right. So things were slowing down right before COVID, but we weren't in a place where we were going to crash, Because I had a lot of people coming to me and going, oh, we're going to crash. And then I said, no, there's no possible way right now. Because people have low interest rates. They're keeping their homes longer. They're not moving less, they have to. They were need buyers, not want buyers, and I also said that we're getting people that are downsizing at that point in time and that's keeping the market going, but there's always people to take their place. Then COVID came and even the downsizers stayed in their homes and people were able to work from home. So they how the house home became more important. And so then in 22, 23, even at the beginning of 24, there was no catalyst to make the market crash. There was still not enough inventory. We still have 6 million homes short for what the market is.

Speaker 1: 9:14

Now this year a few things have changed. A good part of North Carolina was wiped out in housing. A good part of Florida and Georgia homes were wiped out. Now California has so many houses, so that has put more demand on the market. However, in Washington DC we have always been a little bit resistant, I guess, is the best word from a major downturn. We've had downturns, but we don't. A major one doesn't usually happen because we have the federal government. But guess what's happening now? Federal government is losing their jobs and this administration wants to get rid of 40 percent, 50 percent of the government. Even if they get rid of 20 percent of the government, you're talking about a substantial amount of homes that are going to come available and real estate is a local market. So where we might crash, here in Northern Virginia and Maryland and DC, there is a possibility that that's going to happen. Florida and North Carolina are going to be fine. California is going to be fine. They're not going to have enough housing. So I mean it's tough.

Speaker 1: 11:02

It is very possible that we do have the follow through on the downsizing process because baby boomers are getting older Now they don't need their kids, aren't coming home anymore because of COVID. They're going back to wherever they were beforehand. So we've got more inventory coming on. Then this year I see that I've gotten more inventory coming on this spring than I've had for the last two years by far, far more. The market's still good. There's still not enough housing, total, Yep.

Speaker 1: 11:53

But when we hit a peak in 2005,. 2006 was still a good year 2005. 2006 was still a good year and it wasn't until the fall of 2007 where we really crashed. We crashed 20% In 89 to 91, we crashed 20%. So is it possible that we could have that same amount? Sure, Is it possible that we don't, Of course. I mean, you know, no one has a crystal over the last three or four years, so we'll only be giving away a part of that appreciation. So if we do have issues, it'll come that way. But long term real estate is safe, great investment Because in the long-term it'll still go up.

Speaker 1: 13:10

I mean if you bought a house in 1991 at the peak I mean, excuse me, 1989 at the peak or in 2005 in the peak it's still worth a lot more today than it was then. But houses were averaging $300,000 in the 89 timeframe and so the 20% wasn't as much. And in 2005, there were probably six or seven hundred thousand, five or six, seven hundred thousand, and now they're like a million dollars. So it it will.

Speaker 1: 13:48

It will hurt a little bit, but it won't be that bad, and we're probably at least minimum a year away from that, but it could be even three years okay, you know the time if if, if the government actually goes through with changing itself, yeah, and because obviously with all the government employees, if they get laid off, then that's going to put less people to do other services around it.

Speaker 2: 14:24

Wow, you just like dropped, like so much.

Speaker 1: 14:27

I'm sorry, I'm sorry to have to say it.

Speaker 2: 14:30

No, thank you, that's something that people need to hear, especially if they're in real estate or if somebody is looking to buy or sell right now. Get prepared. What are some tips you could give to people? Is there anything we can do to prepare? It just happens. You've got to go with it.

Speaker 1: 14:44

I think you just don't worry about it. Okay, it's like if you buy a stock in the stock market and the next day it goes down and you kick yourself because you could have got it for cheaper, but if you wait three more weeks it's back up to where you paid for it and if you wait a year it's back over what you paid for it and you made money. So I don't think you let the market. You know, real estate should be a long-term investment. Yeah, and that's one of the things that we pride ourselves on in working with people to make sure that what they want to buy is right for them at the time. And that um getting it ready to put on the market and sold him another home. Um, I also sold him one in like 91, um in the bad part of 91 after it crashed and I got him a great deal and um, I think he bought it for one 99. I sold it um several years ago, um for five, 60.

Speaker 2: 16:13

Okay, okay.

Speaker 1: 16:15

So he made a lot of money on it and then he downsized cause he was retiring from the government, yeah, and he bought a little place in Park Fairfax and I think he paid a hundred and something thousand for it, about $200,000. And now it's worth $450,000. So we're going to put putting that on the market and he's downsizing again.

Speaker 1: 16:38

Oh, my goodness Because it's, you know, he doesn't need as much and he's moving a little farther out. It's not downsizing big on square footage, but he's downsizing because he's going farther out, because he doesn't need to drive to work or anything.

Speaker 2: 16:52

Yeah, no, yeah.

Speaker 1: 16:53

So and so this property is going to be, you know, in the 200s, yeah, and he's going to basically pay cash. You know in the 200s, yeah, and he's going to basically pay cash and he won't have a mortgage. So you know people, we work with people to help them create wealth through real estate. We help them make the right decisions, make the decisions for the long run. Now, with him, where he was buying was pretty rural and it wasn't the greatest area. And I said to him you know, do you understand this? You know this is not a desirable area that doesn't have great school districts, it doesn't have other things that people want. When you're looking at a resale of a property and he says, no, I don't care, it's close to this and that and other things that he wanted to be close to and it was perfect for him.

Speaker 2: 17:49

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:50

And so it'll probably be the last house he buys because he's getting older. No more downsizing. I don't think so. Okay, maybe to assisted living.

Speaker 2: 18:03

Okay, maybe That'll be the next one.

Speaker 1: 18:12

But I'm dealing with a lot of people at that stage of life now, Because my clientele, the older clientele that buys the big houses also then downsizes into smaller things over time. Now, obviously, in 1991, I wasn't only selling big houses but I was selling a lot of new homes and that's what he had bought at the first, and now he's been my client for over 25 years.

Speaker 2: 18:39

And how do you maintain those relationships? Obviously, you did a great job.

Speaker 1: 18:44

I believe that if you do a great job with people and you create raving fans and you do it without looking out for your commission, you look out for the client and what's best for the client, I believe that you um, if you do that and you do well by them, they will remember you. Yes, um. Now, of course, we do a little bit of marketing. We, you know, send holiday cards and that type of thing to our clients, but I don't care how. If you did a poor job or you or you weren't honest with somebody or you did you sold them something that really wasn't right for them because you wanted to push it out and make the commission instead of looking out for their interest, I think that it doesn't matter how much marketing you do to them after or what gift you give them or anything like that, they're not going to do business with you anyway.

Speaker 2: 19:57

Yes, correct, 100%.

Speaker 1: 20:00

So I believe that good service begets clients. Absolutely yeah, and clearly that's what you do and you build a reputation.

Speaker 2: 20:09

Yes, yes and.

Speaker 1: 20:10

I've done very. I've worked very hard to build a good, strong reputation in the area.

Speaker 2: 20:16

Yeah, it seems like it, because just even with this one client that you've had since 91 and now it's 2025 and he's still with you.

Speaker 1: 20:24

I have clients where I've sold them houses. I've sold their parents' houses, I've sold their kids' houses and I'm getting to the point where I'm selling their grandkids' houses.

Speaker 2: 20:35

Oh my gosh, you're literally like part of the family tree, literally.

Speaker 2: 20:39

I've been in this business for 34 years now, yeah yeah, but some people they don't have that skill, like having that connection with people too. It's not just about the sale, Obviously. When a lot of people come into the real estate game, I feel like they think, oh, this is going to be easy, I'm going to sell my million, $2 million home and I'm just going to keep doing that over and over and then. And then they come and realize like, oh, I actually have to put in work, like, yeah, you do.

Speaker 1: 21:04

Yep, Our business has changed a lot because when I first got in the business we didn't have internet properties. I mean, we had an internet that we used, but when we printed out a listing, it was about this much information on thermal paper.

Speaker 2: 21:26

So if you left, it in your windshield.

Speaker 1: 21:29

It went black. And then it was shortly thereafter that we came out with one picture in the MLS and more data fields yeah, and we had 400 characters to describe a house.

Speaker 2: 21:46

That's it, yep.

Speaker 1: 21:47

Oh my. Then we went to three pictures, Then we went to 30 pictures. Now we have 150 pictures and we have 4,000 characters that we can write about the house. We've come a long way.

Speaker 1: 22:00

And a lot more data points. Yeah, so the market has changed substantially, but what has happened now is people don't need a real estate agent to look at properties, correct, yeah, they don't need to look. They can look at all the houses they want on the internet, yep, right at their home, and so they don't need a real estate agent for that. What they need a real estate agent for is to make the right decision, to get past all the hurdles to represent their interest, because you know they're working with another party, and you also need them to put a checkpoint on them, because when you're buying something that big, it's good, and so people need expert advice. Yes, but so many real estate agents today don't even own a home. That's crazy, and so they're trying to consult somebody on how to buy a home, but they don't own one themselves.

Speaker 2: 23:06

Yeah, that's wild.

Speaker 1: 23:08

That's actually pretty wild and they like, if you go to zillow and you find a house, I mean, they're the 800-pound gorilla of internet marketing. I surely can't compete with them. They got a lot more information and able to do it, put a lot more money to it than myself or Long Foster or Coldwell Bank or Century 21 or any of the local brands. But because they're national, but if you go there they're going to turn you into an agent. They're going to refer you to an agent, basically, yeah, and they're a brokerage themselves and that agent is going to pay back to Zillow 35% of the commission. At last time I checked the numbers. Well, who's going to do that? Who's going to pay 35% of the commission to them unless they don't have any business? Yeah, so in my business I show every property that I have to every client, whether they have a real estate agent or not, because I don't care.

Speaker 1: 24:33

An agent will come with a buyer. They'll meet them at the property in the driveway and introduce themselves and say, hi, I'm so-and-so, and they've never met before. The person doesn't own a home and they're supposed to be representing that buyer. I don't really have a problem with it. I don't care. It's the way the business works, but I don't work that buyer. Yeah, I don't really have a problem with it. I don't care. It's the way the business works.

Speaker 2: 24:58

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 24:59

But I don't work that way. I try to work where I have give care and knowledge and experience so that they can trust me on what I know.

Speaker 2: 25:15

Yeah, no, that is such a great point and I never thought of it like that, but it's so true. It's just like with any field, like if someone like you can't be a doctor and not be a doctor yourself and give out prescriptions. I know it's a different industry, but it's the same thing almost.

Speaker 1: 25:29

Well, if you're going to hire somebody to give you heart surgery, for example, you want somebody that does it so often, exactly, and it's nothing to them. Yes, when my wife got her shoulder operated on, and the guy does it every day, all day long, and he knows what he's doing. Yes, and it's a matter of fact.

Speaker 2: 25:57

The experience, firsthand knowledge. He's there, he's done it over and over.

Speaker 1: 26:02

And I went to a house yesterday and I was getting ready to put it on the market and they had somebody else come in before me and they have marble floors on their whole first floor. And they have marble floors on their whole first floor and they told them that agent told them that they should rip them all out and put in hardwood.

Speaker 2: 26:24

Whoa, isn't it more expensive?

Speaker 1: 26:25

Of course, it's more expensive and it was a Mediterranean home, so it's going to be of interest to somebody that wants a Mediterranean-style home. Well, what do you have in a Mediterranean style home? Marble floors. So there was other things that needed to be done with the house, but that wasn't one of them and that would just be a waste of money.

Speaker 1: 26:48

I had this one house a few years ago. I went in, I met with them. They didn't hire me and then they met with somebody else and they made them paint the whole house white, everything in the house white. Just, you know, whitewashed the whole house to make it neutral. Well, when I went back, when they didn't sell it and they hired me to come back and they said we should have listened to you and they wanted me to come back and they said we should have listened to you and they wanted me to sell it, I was like, oh my gosh, where'd all the personality go? They go. Oh, that's exactly how we feel. They wanted to sell that house so bad because it wasn't their house anymore, it didn't have any personality and it was harder to sell and went for less money because there was no warmth to the home. And too many real estate agents. They learn, they take their classes and they say declutter the house course.

Speaker 2: 27:54

I hear that all the time, yeah, and then depersonalize it.

Speaker 1: 27:57

Yep, you know. Take all the pictures down, take everything down, because when you're in training, that's what they tell you. They can't teach you taste.

Speaker 2: 28:12

Oh my, you said that so well. So true, that is so true. And that's why I feel like that's kind of maybe disappearing for sure, like and also it comes with experience like obviously the taste, like you hear something or you know, when an industry is like on the cusp of changing or it's already changed and all these things that used to be the standard or the golden rule, it's kind of just like no, let's get rid of that. It's just shifting and changing and making everything just so different. It kind of downgrades a little bit.

Speaker 1: 28:45

Well, I've had houses where we had to paint them.

Speaker 2: 28:49

Sure yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:50

Because they were painted really wild colors or something that was offensive. I've had everything. I mean anything you can imagine.

Speaker 2: 29:00

I've dealt with, I believe it.

Speaker 1: 29:03

I had a Nazi's house and I said you got to take all those flags down and all that kind of stuff to sell it. I had one person that they loved Obama, person that had they were they loved Obama. They had no problem with that. Yeah, but they had a mural, a shrine almost, of him, his wife and his kids painted in their house.

Speaker 2: 29:28

That's unique. I don't know that someone would buy that.

Speaker 1: 29:30

Right, and so, and then other people that had all the Republican stuff all over their house yeah, you know. So you got to say, hey, you're, you're eliminating half the buyers. Yeah, so you got to get rid of all this stuff and, and you know, that type of stuff I understand, yes, and makes sense. But you know, when you're selling something you have to have an understanding of what people like and what people don't like and what's going to matter and what's just being neurotic.

Speaker 2: 30:05

Yes, absolutely. And not everyone has your taste. Not everyone's going to say that mural of Obama. Man, you did great. I want this house, you know.

Speaker 1: 30:14

Maybe you'll find another one.

Speaker 2: 30:16

Maybe someone's out there who's like I'm looking for a house with a big mural of Obama. Wow, I found it. Thanks so much, casey, you're the best.

Speaker 1: 30:25

The thing is, our business is very different now, but there's so many real estate agents in it and it's hard to find agents that have a really good grasp of what to do, what not to do, so that you can also help the customer and not put so much pressure on them that they don't even want to sell their house anymore because they got to do so much you know, or something like that you know and you, you got to go between making it easy for them and getting it right, yes.

Speaker 1: 31:10

And sometimes you have to just say, hey, listen, I'll get it taken care of and you go away and we'll get everything done. Yes, and get the bids and take it off your plate.

Speaker 2: 31:23

Absolutely. Just make it easy for them so they don't have to deal with that hard stuff, because you're the expert, you know that part, but also not overwhelm them, so like that happy medium. Yeah, now we've talked all about this great stuff. Your knowledge and your insight has been awesome about this great stuff. Your knowledge and your insight has been awesome. I forgot to ask you how did you get started in real estate? How did that story unwind for you?

Speaker 1: 31:42

Well, that's a very interesting story, actually Wonderful. I bought a home in 1981, I think it was and I bought it and the guy that sold it to me also worked. Before he got into real estate he had worked in the business that I was in and it was sales, and I was in sales management and I taught salespeople how to do business and everything. And so I bought that house and three years later I was offered three times as much money as I paid for it. So I had this money burning a hole in my pocket. But I was very young, in my 20s, and I was going out to look for a house for $500,000 back then in the eighties. That was a lot of money and so, but everybody looked at me and thought I couldn't buy because I was young. So I would either get these salespeople that worked in real estate, because that's what I was looking at, of course, and they would either be dismissive because I'm young, you're young.

Speaker 1: 33:05

And look at, or they were real high pressure. They were like trying to push you to buy it that that day and when you're buying a house, your largest investment of your life usually that's not really how it works. And I was watching these people and these you know men and women were driving nice cars, living in nice houses, things like that. I said, wow, I could clean up in this business, because this is not good. But I had golden handcuffs. Yeah, because you know, I was in business and I was making really good money and, you know, managing salespeople. So I said, well, I kept that in the back of my head as something that I'd like.

Speaker 1: 33:59

And then later on, you know, several years later, I got to a crossroads in my business where they wanted me to take over a new place and it was basically, I mean, it was a new territory kind of thing and it was basically starting over again because I had to build the salespeople, build up everything, and where I was at, everything was like clockwork. Matter of fact, even today, the person that was the sales manager that worked under me and some of the salespeople and some of the service people, um, are all still there at that place, and the guy that was the sales manager now is the owner of the business. So, um, but that's how well they were trained at the time. So I got to a point where I said I don't want to do this anymore. So I said I should try that real estate thing. So I went and got my real estate license. Um, my first sale, my first closing, was 30 days after I got my license.

Speaker 2: 35:20

That is quick.

Speaker 1: 35:21

Yeah, but it took me my third year. I went over what I was making, so I had to take a cut in pay to do it, to get to that, to get to that level yeah yeah. And then I did very well and then did much better, but it was a little bit of a change.

Speaker 2: 35:44

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 35:45

But you know, I looked at it as I saw these people that were not good at sales and marketing and really didn't understand their product. Because in our business we're in one of the greatest businesses in the world there's billions of dollars of inventory out there and we don't have to pay any floor plan or any carrying costs or anything on it. All we have to do is pay for our license or pen and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1: 36:22

But most people don't. In sales. The very first thing you're taught if you're professional is know your product inside and out. If you're selling cars, you know what the motor is and what the differences are between this car and that car. If you're selling motorcycles, you know the differences between all the little different motorcycle things. So it doesn't matter what you're selling. It doesn't matter if it's bras and underwear or clothing. You know how they're made and what's going on with them and why they're valuable. But people don't do that in the real estate business. They are just a lockbox key. They try to let somebody in, let them look around and then say do you want to buy that one? And then write up a contract.

Speaker 2: 37:14

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:15

Instead of being a person that has knowledge that people can rely on.

Speaker 2: 37:21

Absolutely. Now. You've touched on so many great points, so many great insights in the real estate world. Is there anything that I have not touched on that perhaps you want to get out there, whether it's about yourself, your industry, homes in our area, anything at all, you have the floor for that. Well in our area.

Speaker 1: 37:43

It's a very good area for real estate, very good schools, very good location. We are part of Washington DC, so that makes it very well, makes our business very well and it makes prices expensive. We're not expensive in this area compared to compared to Florida, Miami, California, even Aspen. It's so funny. I had a client that had a home in Aspen that back in the 90s it was $4.5 million that's a lot and I was selling him a house here and he wanted to buy a house for $2 million. He was selling a house for $1.2 million or $3 million and was buying a house for $2 million Even more. And I was going to say I said to him why don't you spend more? Your second home, your winter home, is $4.5 million. He goes, but that's not what you do here. Okay, Our prices are extremely fair.

Speaker 1: 38:51

When you think about the fact that we're, the highest income in the United States is here in Washington. You know McLean McLean Great Falls, Vienna and Oakton is probably the highest concentration of the biggest amount of money of anything of anywhere in the country. Loudoun County is the wealthiest county. Great Falls has the highest per house, it's the most expensive, but that's because there's no townhouses, there's no condos, so you can't equal it out. So the average is the highest. But compare that to the same house in another area. We're very reasonably priced, yeah. So, um, if people want to live here and are looking, you know, in this area it's a great place to buy a house, it's a great place to bring a family, it's a great place to raise your kids and um, and and then it's a great place just to live yeah so we're close to the mountains, we're close to the three hours to the beaches, yeah.

Speaker 1: 40:12

And then we've got, of course, washington DC, yeah.

Speaker 2: 40:15

And we get to experience all the seasons.

Speaker 1: 40:17

And we get all the seasons.

Speaker 2: 40:19

So you feel all the holidays like real good.

Speaker 1: 40:22

Just about the time you get sick of all the snow and winter weather. Yes, like we're having now, it becomes spring and then it gets to be summer and then, when you're sick of the hot, it becomes fall my favorite.

Speaker 2: 40:36

Yeah, exactly. Thank you so much, and I would like to ask you this is my final question. I literally could talk to you all day. You're very interesting realtor. Do you have a quote, a saying or a mantra that has resonated with you in any way, shape or form, that you've played back over in your head and it's inspired you? Would you mind sharing that with us?

Speaker 1: 40:59

Well, the company. Experience, knowledge and trust is what we live by, because if you don't have the experience or the knowledge, you can't earn people's trust. But I do believe in earning people's trust. It's not given. Yes, and I used to talk about when I marketed in advertising that I sell more because I do more.

Speaker 2: 41:33

That's right. It makes sense to me. I don't know if it does to others, but we heard it here first. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast Really appreciate you making time to be here. I know you went and filmed your stuff and then you came here and did a little bit behind the scenes for us. We appreciate that. That was awesome. No, problem.

Speaker 1: 41:49

Thank you.