The Alimond Show
Welcome to The Alimond Show --join us as we share our entrepreneurial guests' stories, uncover their secrets to success, and explore the unique paths they've taken to build thriving businesses in our community.
In each episode, our host, Aliyah Dastour, sits down with a diverse group of local business owners, from the corner cafe to the boutique shop, from tech startups to family-run enterprises. We peel back the curtain to reveal the trials, triumphs, and transformational moments that have shaped their entrepreneurial journey.
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The Alimond Show
Bob Walker - From Medical Technologist to Legal Innovator: Enriching the Legal Field with a Scientific Background, Championing Pro Bono Work, and Navigating Retirement Transitions
What happens when a chief medical technologist decides to switch gears and navigate the world of law? We sit down with Bob Walker of Law Office if Robert B Walker, an attorney whose unconventional journey from the sciences to the courtroom is as unique as it is inspiring. Bob shares how the encouragement from an academic dean led him to embrace the Socratic method of law school, ultimately guiding him to establish his own firm. From debunking common misconceptions about attorneys to ensuring clarity and trust with his clients, Bob’s story exemplifies how diverse backgrounds can enrich the legal profession.
Ever wondered how social media and retirement plans intertwine with a legal career? A seasoned legal professional shares their current approach to marketing and reflects on the excitement and challenges of transitioning into retirement. With impactful pro bono work, particularly for indigent women in domestic violence cases, their insights highlight the compassionate side of law. The conversation underscores the value of personalized estate planning, illustrating the importance of simplicity and preparedness in managing one's legacy.
We also delve into the significance of establishing legal documents for life's unpredictable turns, starting at age 18. Discover strategies for establishing client trust and respect, and hear firsthand the motivations behind providing legal counsel to family abuse victims. As we explore the complexities of bankruptcy proceedings and the importance of proper debt security, we also find time for some lighter moments. Join us as we share the joy of playing tennis in a winter bubble and the life lessons it imparts.
Robert Walker. Although I go by Bob mostly, I'm not good at answering to Robert. My firm is Law Office of Robert B Walker in Herndon and Reston, Virginia.
Speaker 2:Love it, and what are the type of services that you provide for your clients?
Speaker 1:Nowadays I mostly do estate planning, wills, trusts and probate litigation. My pro bono thing is I do a number of domestic assault cases for legal services.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, protective order cases, and I'm a special justice for civil commitment in Fairfax.
Speaker 2:Okay, so you've got a lot of categories here, very important and interesting ones, might I add. I'd like to ask what inspired you to pursue a career in law, and how did your early experiences shape your focus areas?
Speaker 1:Got a bit of an unusual career path. I guess my undergraduate degrees are chemistry and biology.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:My master's is in clinical chemistry and I then went to law school, mostly because at the time I was the chief med tech in the City of Memphis Hospital. I was the chief med tech in the City of Memphis Hospital Chemistry Lab, which is the University of Tennessee's teaching hospitals. Back at that time it was a 1,000-bed hospital with 3,000 patient-a-day outpatient clinics and we ran all the chemistries. And to go any further in that field I had to either go to med school or get a PhD, and I didn't want to do either of those things. So the dean at the dental school had told me that I should go to law school. That that was really what I tested best for. You must be nuts.
Speaker 1:I just spent four years of undergraduate school in the science building and three years of grad school. But I kept thinking about it and I thought, well, I'll give it a shot. All I knew at that time about law was what I'd seen on TV Perry, mason, the Defenders, stuff like that and at that time Memphis had a night law school. So I was. I wasn't going to throw my career away on something I didn't. So I started law school. I kept working at night in the lab, in the daytime, going to school at night, and I got to really liking it. The first semester was really tough because with the sciences there are answers.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:In law? There are not. So it was psychologically. It was a different way of thinking, yeah, A different way of thinking, yeah, A different way of teaching. In most of the science courses you went to class, took notes, came back and took a test. There wasn't a lot of interaction.
Speaker 2:Dang.
Speaker 1:In law school it's what they call the Socratic method, where the professor stands up, you've got assignments, and the professor stands up front and calls on people and you've got to get on your feet and answer and it's argument, it's back and forth, yeah, and so I was so scared of being embarrassed that I always went to class prepared.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can relate to that actually.
Speaker 1:Which is not what I did normally. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Isn't that crazy where life takes us. Sometimes You're like going into your chem degree, bio, and then suddenly you're like law school. Hello, night school. I love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And now as a solo practitioner since 96,. What challenges and rewards have you encountered in managing your own firm?
Speaker 1:When I was in law school I decided that I should clerk, that is, work for a law firm while I was in school to see what the practice of law was really like and if that's really what I wanted to do. And I got a job clerking for this firm that had an office in Memphis and an office up here, and they eventually wanted me to speed up, switch over to day school and then come up here to the DC office for a couple of years.
Speaker 2:And where were you before? Memphis? Memphis, okay, got it, got it.
Speaker 1:And that was 1976. Okay, and never went back there. We practiced. At that time we practiced what was called transportation law, that is, we represented trucking companies and bus companies before the Interstate Commerce Commission. That industry got deregulated. The ICC no longer exists. Even so, that's when I branched out from that and started a more private, a private. Well, I went with a another firm of friends of mine that I'd known for many years, who used to be transportation lawyers as well, and it just wasn't a good experience. Didn't work out well, and so I left that partnership and went out on my own.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how are you liking it being on your own now?
Speaker 1:Yeah, how are you liking it being on your own now? I like it a lot. I'm not nearly as collegial as I'd like to think I was.
Speaker 2:I like making the decisions on my own Right. It's part of being an entrepreneur. They like that.
Speaker 1:It's arguing over what brand of paper clips we're going to buy.
Speaker 2:I love that argument. What is a common misconception people have about working with an attorney and how do you address it?
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness, that we're difficult.
Speaker 2:How? So what are they thinking?
Speaker 1:Well, we talk funny, we use English, but we don't use words that normal people use and I think we have a habit of falling into our jargon and thinking everybody understands us and they don't, and sometimes we can be hard to get hold of. I mean, if you're in court you're not taking phone calls, no, and you know. And then you get back to the and it can be hard to return them all right away and that's a large problem of just communication and client trust, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that you're self-aware about it, though A lot of people will go on and not be aware that, hey, maybe I'm speaking in a jargon. That's not very people friendly like regular folks who are not in law, right. So I love that you're aware of that, you know that and you try to be a little bit more like OK, let me use not the hard words here, the hard words here.
Speaker 1:I try to do that and use them and I try to prepare people that when we're in court, these are terms you're going to hear and this is what they mean. Sometimes I get it right and sometimes I don't.
Speaker 2:I love that you teach them too beforehand. That's nice. A little bit of a heads-up is appreciated. And then I'd like to ask you about marketing. Are you currently using any video or social media to get the word out there about the type of services you provide?
Speaker 1:I'm not too much. I've got a Facebook page, although in the current climate I've backed off from it a good bit. Yeah, and I never used it that much for marketing. Anyway, I got off Twitter some time ago. Now I have an Instagram account, but I mostly read stuff from it. That's all right. I don't post much. I mostly read stuff from it, that's all right, I don't post much. And I've hit the stage where I'm not really trying to build anything anymore. I'm just sort of, you know, I'm happy with where I am. Yeah, and I'm looking to retire in a few years probably. Okay, so I'm not trying to. If it were 1996, I'd be a lot more engaged in that sort of thing?
Speaker 2:Are you excited to retire?
Speaker 1:Yes and no.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay.
Speaker 1:What am I going to? I don't know what I'm going to do when I retire. I will probably move down to the Gulf Coast. Oh nice, and I can only watch so much TV.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And I hate golf. I've tried and tried to like that sport it just doesn't do it for me.
Speaker 2:That's all right, I like that.
Speaker 1:So I'm not sure that part of retirement kind of doesn't look all that great to me.
Speaker 2:Maybe you can take it.
Speaker 1:I'm kind of liking what I'm doing, yeah, so if we were to stay up here, I'd probably keep doing it until they take me out, kicking and screaming.
Speaker 2:No, I'm glad that you love this. This is your passion, so maybe you can take up some side gigs here and there.
Speaker 1:Well, it's harder in Florida. You can't wave into Florida and I'm not taking another bar exam. Yeah, I know I can't.
Speaker 2:I don't think I can concentrate enough to prepare for that Fair enough, fair enough, yeah, well, hopefully you can find some new other hobbies. Maybe you can take up, I don't know, painting or hiking, surfing well I do, I would.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't mind spending a lot of time on the beach right, take up fishing again I haven't. You know, ever since we moved up here, I haven't fished hardly at all.
Speaker 2:So yeah, well, I hope you get to do that yeah, I'm excited for you in that new journey, so kudos to you when you get there. And then let's see have there been any cases or clients that profoundly impacted the way you viewed the legal system?
Speaker 1:I'm sure there are. Um, yeah, I've had quite a few. Maybe a lot of it was from the pro bono stuff, the representing indigent women in these domestic violence cases. It's very eye-opening. I never did. As a result of that, I occasionally got dragged into a little bit of a family case, but I never did family law.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And the dynamics between people is constantly amazing in the way they will mistreat each other. But a lot of it it's been helpful in that a lot of these women had never had anybody pay any attention to them really or give them any respect at all, and the way they react to that is to somebody actually treating them with respect.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It makes it very pleasing in a way yeah, I'm sure, gratifying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm sure they were just happy they could come to somebody, let alone, I guess, a man, a guy right, who's hearing them out, listening to them and who's on their side and is advocating for them. I'm sure that was a game changer for them, for a lot of them, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's great, and it's communities that I don't otherwise wouldn't be in.
Speaker 2:I've hit a stage where I'm not in the bars and stuff like that anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, thanks for sharing that. You emphasize personalized estate planning over standardized packages. Could you share your approach to tailoring plans to individual client needs?
Speaker 1:Well, I think we can make these plans be very complicated, and I think that's unfair to people. I try to make them as simple and easy to put into place as they can. A lot of lawyers believe that everybody should have a trust, a workable trust, and in theory it's a great idea. And in theory, it's a great idea.
Speaker 2:In practice.
Speaker 1:people don't bother putting assets into the trust so that when they die it's of no use. So if we can do things to make it simpler for them most I don't know 75, 80% of the people want to leave everything to their wife, if their wife's not there, to their kids, and if we can make that happen for them easier without having to go through. If we can avoid probate, that's a good thing, although in Virginia probate's not such a big problem. In Florida and California, for example, you definitely want to avoid probing, but here it's not that bad. And so if I can do plans that make it easier for the distribution without having to go through a lot of steps, that's what I prefer to do.
Speaker 2:Okay, thank you for sharing that. How do you help clients oh, sorry, were you about to say something? No, okay, how do you help clients navigate sensitive topics like planning for incapacity or end of life decisions?
Speaker 1:Well, I'm not sure I do, but I do try. I think I tell people and I believe this that for most people having documents, advanced medical directives and powers of attorney are really more important than having wills. Because, especially as society has gotten more complicated and less people-friendly in a way, if something happens, you walk outside, trip, hit your head, become in a coma. If you don't have documents in place, it can be very difficult for your wife or your husband to handle your affairs, and that possibility is not going to happen. Your affairs and that's every that's. That possibility is not going to happen to everybody, but if it does, it's horrible. There was a case many years ago now that was actually out of Manassas. A guy who was a TV reporter in Kentucky had some medical condition, was in a coma, was not likely to recover.
Speaker 1:Oh geez and his wife. They didn't have documents and his wife wanted to pull the plug and his family did not. Oh, my so they ended up in this big dispute in court. The governor of Virginia got involved, whoa and it became just a huge problem, and that's what can happen and you don't want that.
Speaker 2:So my question to that is when should we be having these conversations? Like when's a good time? As soon as possible.
Speaker 1:When you're 18.
Speaker 2:Oh, as soon as you turn 18, huh, Okay, yeah, because I feel like a lot of the times we don't really think of this. As soon as we turn 18, we're thinking of like, yay, we can buy what. Is it a cigarette?
Speaker 1:now, or whatnot right?
Speaker 2:And a lot of people wait until it's a little bit too late, like you said, or get into some very sticky situations. So I'm glad that you brought this up get into some very sticky situations.
Speaker 1:So I'm glad that you brought this up. It's not it's maybe not as big a problem for 18 year olds, but it but as you get older from that and do start getting assets of your own and earning money, then it becomes a problem, absolutely yeah, you know the banks are all headquartered in Charlotte or Atlanta or someplace. You can't just go to the bank and say my son is in a coma, I need to access his money. That ain't going to happen.
Speaker 2:No, that's not going to fly with them, absolutely not.
Speaker 1:And the same thing with medical treatment?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Sure. And then what strategies do you use to help clients feel more comfortable discussing their legal needs?
Speaker 1:I try to be, at least appear to be, understanding, and I do, I'm concerned about it, but I don't, I don't and I don't necessarily want to know the real nitty-gritty of their life, but the overall sort of things, and so I don't pry too much. I'm kind of an introvert anyway.
Speaker 2:Keep it professional, right, right? Yeah, short and sweet. No, that's fair. Everybody has different styles and some people like that. Some people don't want to be probed and asked all these personal questions. They're just here to get things done and they just want to be on their way, right? So there's different styles of being a lawyer, an attorney, and everybody finds who they like with that's true. I like that. What motivated you to provide legal counsel to victims of family abuse, and what challenges do these cases typically present?
Speaker 1:Well, I felt like I needed to give back to some degree, and Legal Services of Northern Virginia, which is what more commonly thought of as legal aid, probably had a program years ago now where they were asking lawyers to represent victims in protective order cases, and so I started doing that, and as I did it more, I got to you shouldn't say enjoying it more, but I got comfortable with it and I felt good about doing it, and so now I do it a fair amount. They have what they call the Attorney of the Day program. Okay, so I sign up one day a month to take whatever cases come in on that day, yeah, or come in for trial on that day, and then, if they have other openings and I can do them, I will. Yeah, that's awesome. The challenge is being nosy to a degree, yeah yeah, Like you said, you're introverted right?
Speaker 2:I?
Speaker 1:am and trying to probe. You know what's he going to say about you. I am and trying to probe. You know what's he going to say about you. I had you know. If you know things that are coming, you can handle it better than if they surprise you with it. For sure for sure. I had a client years and years ago now, who I discovered on her cross-examination by the other side that she was a pole dancer. Okay, which is fine, but it would have been better if I would have known.
Speaker 1:Known ahead of time, right, yes, and we could have done it ourselves, rather than have it come out as we were trying to hide it.
Speaker 2:Yes, so true.
Speaker 1:Especially in a family kind of a case, because you also got kids involved there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it can be heart-rending what happens to people, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for sharing that and I'm glad that you were able to find a way where you wanted to give back in some way with the community by helping the domestic disputes.
Speaker 1:Well, that was one of the nice things about going out on my own. I didn't have a required number of billable hours. I could do more what I wanted to. I had hit a stage where I could give some time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, awesome. I'm glad you got that in In your experience representing creditors in bankruptcy proceedings. What are the common pitfalls creditors should be aware of? What are the common pitfalls?
Speaker 1:creditors should be aware of that their debt's not secured properly. They don't file all the right documents, uh-oh, so that they become a secured creditor as opposed to an unsecured creditor, uh-huh, and that your chances of getting everything are not that great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that's why they hire you, so you can help them right, we can yeah.
Speaker 1:And sometimes they surprise you. I had one once where guys came in. They had a business of importing rubber mounts as engine parts and they had done okay, but one of their clients had not paid them and was now in bankruptcy.
Speaker 2:Uh-oh.
Speaker 1:And I said well, it was I don't know $15,000, $20,000. So it was a fair amount of money. It was, I don't know $15,000, $20,000. It was a fair amount of money. And I told them well, we can file a—they were unsecured. Of course we can file a proof of claim and see what happens, but spend them going in and really fighting about it. You're just throwing good money after bad. And so we did that and nothing ever happened. And then years later, five or six years later, I received in the office mail a check for the full amount. Oh Now, it took me a while to figure out to whom it belonged, yes, and where it came from. But it had been a Chapter 11 bankruptcy and they had worked out enough that they paid off all their debts.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:But that's once.
Speaker 2:Yes, no, that's a great outcome there.
Speaker 1:It is. I wish I could say it was because of my great lawyering, but other than filling out the proof of claim right, I didn't do much.
Speaker 2:It's okay. I'm sure they appreciate it anyway in having your guidance and having your company for that situation. So I'd like to ask, through all of your experience that you've had being in your industry, looking back on everything, do you feel satisfied with your career? Do you feel like you were able to do what you wanted to do?
Speaker 1:Most of the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's awesome. I love that I just love to hear, since you're getting ready to retire in the next coming years. I'm just always curious, like do people look back and are they like, yeah, I did what I wanted to do, I accomplished all the things that I wanted.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Good yeah, I'm pretty happy with it.
Speaker 2:I'm happy to hear that. That's great.
Speaker 1:I would have liked it if the interstate commerce work had stayed around. Okay, that was a fun practice.
Speaker 2:Well, there's always next time, right? Is there anything that I have not touched on that you would like to share, in regards whether it's about yourself, your business or anything at all in your industry? Your?
Speaker 1:business or anything at all in your industry. Well, people shouldn't be afraid of us, and they should. A lot of this DIY do-it-yourself wills and documents is fine maybe, but you really ought to have it looked at by a lawyer and practices in that area so that, in fact, you haven't messed it up, which is easy to do, and we make a lot more money fixing that sort of thing than doing it right to start with. So it and it's maybe sounds like big money sometimes, sometimes to get those documents in place, but it's well worth it, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. And I'd like to ask when you're not doing all this legal stuff, what do you like to do on your free time? Or do you not have free time because you're always?
Speaker 1:so busy? No, I have free time. I read some. I listen. A lot of my reading nowadays is with audio books. Audio books yeah, that's awesome, and so in the car I do that and I play tennis a couple of times a week.
Speaker 2:So you're a tennis guy, not a golf guy.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:I think tennis is better, but don't tell anybody.
Speaker 1:I have tried and tried to like golf and it just doesn't do it for me. Back when my daughter was a senior in high school, as a fundraiser they had this golf tournament thing and so I rented some clubs and signed up and thought, well, I'm older now Maybe I'll like it. And I was in a foursome with Monty Coleman, who was at that time a recently retired Redskins. Then they were the Redskins Wow Linebacker, and so that was fun. But the third or fourth hole, I'm thinking, is this day ever going to end? Right?
Speaker 2:I think that is this day ever going to end Right, I think that too when I watch it.
Speaker 1:It's just boring, as all get out to be, oh my gosh, I relate to you so much.
Speaker 2:I'm never going to forget this conversation or you, because everybody's like oh, I go golfing, I love golfing and I'm just like, but finally, like my ears, like he does not like golf. Okay, I got one similar to me too, so it's not for everyone, it's okay. I think tennis is cool. Have you ever been in a tournament?
Speaker 1:for anything. No, no, no, I'm way more enthusiastic.
Speaker 2:Okay, I was wondering, maybe you had like a little background.
Speaker 1:No, there's a group of us. It's changed some, but there were four of us who lived in the same neighborhood and we played tennis every Sunday morning for about 30 years.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:And as one moved out to Arizona, one moved to the eastern shore and so it's changed a bit, but there's still four of us that play. We buy an hour and a half a week in the bubble in Herndon in the wintertime and play there.
Speaker 2:In the wintertime. Is it outdoors or indoors? No, it's a bubble. Oh.
Speaker 1:Tennis bubble. Okay, wow, so it's indoors and it's a great bubble. Herndon has a great bubble.
Speaker 2:I didn't know that Herndon had one. Maybe I'll go there and I'll see you there and we can play. I'm not very good so you'll win.
Speaker 1:I'll tell you that. But I'll try. Maybe you can give me some pointers.
Speaker 2:What not to do. Yeah, there we go, all right. So my final question is do you have a quote, a saying, maybe something that somebody's told you throughout your career that has kind of inspired you or resonated, and would you like to share that with us?
Speaker 1:I don't know where this comes from, but it's more. I think it was at one time supposed to be familiar, but I don't think that was right. But it was something along the lines of I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. Wow. Yeah, no that's kind of like Be prepared and show up on time.
Speaker 2:That's right, the code of honor for you guys right, I love that. Well, thank you so much for making time to be here and thank you for sharing your journey with us, your insights and a little bit of your love for tennis.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me Always happy to talk about my favorite person. You're welcome.