Speaker 1: 0:30

I'm Elizabeth Vaughn. I'm a family law attorney, so I am the owner of Vaughn Family Law Firm and we provide full service family law, which includes divorce, separation, custody and also adoption and services for children who need attorneys, Wow.

Speaker 2: 0:51

That is some really powerful stuff there that you take care of and work with people. I'd like to ask you what inspired you to pursue a career in family law, with a focus on adoption and child welfare.

Speaker 1: 1:04

Yeah, I actually started out. I took a class about adoption law and the attorneys who taught the class were the happiest people I had ever seen. I wanted to ask them, like does the Virginia State Bar know that you're this happy? Because I don't think they allow that. But you know, adoption is a really wonderful practice area because usually everyone in the transaction wants to be there, right, the birth parents want to place the baby and the adoptive parents want to adopt the baby, and it's good for everyone. So I started out just doing an adoption and my mentor suggested that I should get on the list to become a guardian ad litem for children, and that's an attorney who represents the best interests of children. She said it was a good way to learn the system. So I did that and I fell in love with it. I just really loved representing children. I think they're the most important clients that we could ever have. So that's how I came to specialize in child welfare law.

Speaker 2: 2:06

That is incredible. Thank you so much for sharing that. I'd like to ask can you share a defining moment in your career that reinforced your commitment to child welfare advocacy, if you could think of one.

Speaker 1: 2:19

Well, I think really it was my very first case. My very first case that I did as a guardian ad litem for children was representing two little boys. They were three and five at the time and they were taken into foster care after they found their father's girlfriend dead on the floor of a drug overdose.

Speaker 1: 2:41

And I went to visit them, because that's one of the things we do we meet our little clients in person, and I just realized there could be no more important client in the world than this person. I'm sitting in a teeny chair, like you do in daycare. Right now I'm trying to develop some rapport with these little people who have had a very frightening time, and I thought, man, we should be trained better for this. So that's when I started to really study trauma and child welfare and a lot of nerdy topics that help inform how we relate to children.

Speaker 2: 3:18

Yeah, absolutely. I think what you said about them being the most important clients is the children. That is so true. Oftentimes they can get overlooked and it's mostly, like you know, the adults and like those big decisions, but we don't stop to realize how that affects the children. In between all of that, whether it's their parents arguing or fighting the loss of a family member, neglect it's so tough out there. So for them to have an advocate out there that is looking out for their best interests is incredible and amazing, and I'm sure you feel a lot of pride and joy that you're able to help these kids.

Speaker 1: 3:57

Well, and if I can be super nerdy for a second.

Speaker 2: 4:00

Yes, please.

Speaker 1: 4:00

We know that it helps all of us when we help children. Yes, you know the ACEs study. You might be familiar with its adverse childhood experiences. The more traumatic experiences you have as a young person, the more effects people tend to have afterwards on their health, on their behavior, on all different aspects of their lives. And so if we're able to reduce trauma when people are young, it helps all of society because there tend to be less adverse health impacts, less crime, less mental health problems. So it's a huge plus for everyone if we can take care of children well.

Speaker 2: 4:39

Absolutely, I'd have to agree with that. Thank you for sharing that. If you have any more quote, unquote, nerdy stuff, I'm all here for it.

Speaker 1: 4:46

I'm all about the nerdiness.

Speaker 2: 4:48

Good, I love that. And then, how has the field of adoption law evolved since you began practicing in 2003?

Speaker 1: 4:56

Oh, wow, it has. Yes, so a couple big ones that spring to mind. Adoption is much more often open, though. What does that mean? Meaning that the birth parents of the child and the adoptive parents have a way to communicate with each other. They know each other's identity and contact information and they're in touch, and that can look like anything from adoptive parents send pictures once a year to we all go to family reunions together. It could be anything that they want, but very few people anymore have a totally closed adoption where they just never talk to each other again. A totally closed adoption where they just never talk to each other again. Because, again, studies find that it's better for children to have some connection to their birth identity. Yeah, another one that's really interesting is all this genetic information that's now available to us because of these genetic test kits that you can buy. We used to really be able to promise people anonymity, both for birth parents and for adoptive parents.

Speaker 1: 6:00

No one's ever going to find out who you are or that you gave birth to this child Wrong. Now we have even sperm donors who, their biological children, are able to find them because of genetic information that's publicly available.

Speaker 2: 6:16

Do you think that that is better or worse in some cases, or what are your thoughts on that, because I feel like it can go both ways right.

Speaker 1: 6:27

This is such a lawyer answer, but it depends, right, and it depends which party you are, right, like, if you're the child and you were adopted and now you're an adult, you might really want to know where you came from. You might want to know that for your doctor, right. If a particular condition runs in your family, you might want to know that. Very true, and adult adoptees tend to feel strongly that that information belongs to them and I don't disagree with that. But on the other hand, if you're a young birth mother and you expected anonymity when you placed your baby for adoption and now you don't have that anymore, I can see how that could be very frightening.

Speaker 2: 7:04

Yeah, okay, yeah, no, I didn't know that, so that's kind of incredible. And I didn't. I just, you know, I'm not a person who obviously has been adopted, so I can't imagine what it's like for them to. For those people who have, like I want to know who my birth parents are, and them being able to get that information. I'm sure it's just life changing for them, so I'm glad that that's an availability for them. Now, what are the most significant challenges currently facing child welfare law practitioners?

Speaker 1: 7:38

So right now, the biggest one is there just aren't enough of us. Our court right now has a very short list of people who are willing to represent children. Part of that is because it doesn't pay very well. We're paid by the state at a rate that's set by our legislature and it's not very much, yeah, but also it's very emotionally taxing work and there is not enough support out there. I think Guardian Satellite need a posse of people who they can talk to about the work so that they don't get burned out.

Speaker 2: 8:10

Yeah, man, that kind of sucks, because you guys are trying to make a change and obviously it's not for the money, but it would be nice to get you know recompensated for all the work that you are doing, because it is very important work and it's very meaningful work and, like you said, it benefits all society. What do you think could be done or what are the steps that we as a society or population need to do in order to help you guys or change that so you can get paid better?

Speaker 1: 8:45

Well, I think if more people knew about guardians ad litem and what they do, that would be helpful, because most people, unless they're involved in a family court case, they don't even really know that there's such a thing as a child advocate attorney. Yeah, but we do exist, and the legislature increased the pay for court-appointed attorneys for parents last year, so maybe guardians that let them are next. Most of us don't do it for the money, but we also don't turn down money if they offer it to us?

Speaker 2: 9:15

Yeah, no, absolutely. You guys are amazing. All this information that you have and all this knowledge and all this potential information that could reach a lot of people. Are you an avid social media user? Are you using video content, or maybe even just graphics, to share all of this insight that maybe, perhaps, is not being shared that often, just so you could spread that awareness? Or how are you using marketing in order to let people know about all the things that you're doing and all the good things that you're able to do, and maybe some of the not so pretty stuff that people should know about?

Speaker 1: 9:50

Yeah, so I just started my firm in October, so we're fairly new and not quite yet hitting our stride with social media, but we'll definitely be sharing stories and especially with parents. A lot of the information that I've learned about trauma and children and development can apply to any child, not just a child who's in a desperate situation. So when parties are getting divorced, often they'll come to me and say, hey, what's most important to me is to minimize the impact of divorce on my children. And how do I do that? And there actually are practical ways that we can do that. So that's what I love to share with people, because not everyone, fortunately, is in an abuse or neglect situation, but there are a lot of folks who are going through separation and divorce and there are easier ways for children to do that.

Speaker 2: 10:41

What advice would you give to prospective adoptive parents navigating the legal aspects of adoption?

Speaker 1: 10:49

Get a lawyer who does at least 50% adoption as their practice. Okay, unfortunately, I've seen people get attorneys who dabble in adoption and it's really easy to mess it up. It's something that has to be done exactly by the book. For example, if you want to get your birth mother a gift, it's possible that you can void your adoption by doing this, because by under the law, there are only certain things that you can pay for for the birth mother, because we don't want people to buy babies, right, we don't want to offer her a Maserati in exchange for her baby. So, um, so the law made very specific categories of things that you can pay for, like medical care, legal advice, things like that you can pay for for a birth mother. But if you mess it up, it's a big deal.

Speaker 1: 11:44

So, get someone who knows the ropes, who's done it many times before, and that's my best advice. The American Academy of Adoption Attorneys is a great place to find a lawyer who isn't just dabbling in adoption as a hobby.

Speaker 2: 11:57

Got it Very insightful. You're giving us just so many insightful nuggets here that are going to help a lot of people who are maybe listening to this and they're just like I don't know what the first step is for me to adopt a child. Like where do I go? Do I go to an orphanage and just sign the papers? It's like no, there's a lot more that you need to look into before you just do something like that. Yeah, Call me up. I'm happy to talk to you. Yeah, Hit up, Elizabeth. What motivated you to become a certified child welfare specialist through the National Association of Counsel for Children?

Speaker 1: 12:27

Yeah, Again, it's just that I believe children are our most important clients. So National Association of Counsel for Children has a bar exam. That's just about child welfare law. You study for it just like you would for a bar exam and you have to have recommendations from your judges and your colleagues and it's a whole process and to me it's important to show my young clients that I take them extremely seriously and I wouldn't just walk in knowing nothing about children and child welfare law and try to represent them because it is a specialty.

Speaker 2: 13:04

Yeah for sure. How many people do you have on your team right now?

Speaker 1: 13:08

So right now it's just me and my paralegal, emily, okay, but we are growing. In March we have an associate with a specialization in education law who's going to join us.

Speaker 2: 13:18

Very nice. I love that. Could you give me a little bit more insight on how having somebody who specializes in education will go hand in hand and help you with your clients in your business?

Speaker 1: 13:30

Yeah, it really goes along with our mission of helping children. She specializes in helping folks whose child have, for example, an IEP individualized education plan. Often you have to sort of negotiate those with the school and what kind of services your child needs. So she's really good at that, Awesome. And it fits right in with our theme. We put the little people first.

Speaker 2: 13:54

Yes, what systemic changes do you believe are necessary to improve child welfare and adoption processes?

Speaker 1: 14:02

Systemic changes so I mean funding is one we need our legislature to show us that they value children and families us, that they value children and families. We're learning more and more about prevention and child welfare law, because right now our system is very reactive. We wait until something terrible happens to a child and then we go, oh my gosh, let's move fast. But again, studies are showing us that if we can intervene much earlier with a family that might be at risk of abusing or neglecting their children, give them the education they need, give them the practical tools they need, then we can actually prevent those adverse childhood experiences, those traumas, from happening in the first place, rather than just jumping in when they do happen. Right, yeah, and that's really the direction I think that child welfare is headed in, and it's very exciting.

Speaker 2: 14:55

Yay good, I love to hear that. So much crazy things going on in the world, so it always makes me happy when I hear that there's going to be positive change.

Speaker 1: 15:03

Well, and you know, children don't want new families. Children want their families to be better, and so the idea that we remove a child when they're abused or neglected is a very traumatic event for them, and if we can prevent that from ever being necessary, then we're really doing our job well.

Speaker 2: 15:24

Yes, and when you're not handling all of these cases, helping families out, helping children out? What do you like to do in your free time to unwind? I know this job can probably get a little bit stressful sometimes. As with all jobs, there's stress that involves, but there's also great times. What do you like to do to take care of yourself and your mental health?

Speaker 1: 15:44

Yeah, so I take a lot of long walks with my dog. My dog loves it. He's really happy that I have a stressful job. No, but I find walking for some reason, really helps my brain figure out the right solution. It's sort of meditative, and so I do like to walk a lot and be outside, and I'm a nerd, so I also like to read a lot of books curled up in my chair.

Speaker 2: 16:07

I love it. What kind of resources do you use? I know probably it's books, but what other resources do you use to stay updated on what's going on in your industry and with the laws and what's going on with children around the world or even in our country?

Speaker 1: 16:23

National Association of Counsel for Children, where I'm certified, is a really good one. They have newsletters and keep everyone up to date on the latest. And I love their conference too. It's like being my tribe, yes, so that's a really good way, and I read the Bar Association publications and things like that, and a big one too is my colleagues. We need each other, so I like to just hold a little happy hour now and then and have people get together and chit-chat.

Speaker 2: 16:52

I love it. Where do you see yourself in the next five years as a person and with your business?

Speaker 1: 16:59

Yeah. So Vaughn Family Law the divorce and custody and child support family law piece really helps support our more charitable work, doing trauma work for children. So, yeah, I would love to get the firm to a place where I can primarily be doing child welfare law. Less divorce and more just working directly with the little people. That's where my heart is.

Speaker 2: 17:26

Yeah, love it. Could you share maybe a heartfelt or just very inspirational moment that you've had, maybe helping a child? I know you gave me one earlier, but do you have one that has stood out? I know that was your first case, but do you have one that really stood out? And you're just like man I can't believe I was able to to help this kiddo out, the little people out I know there's plenty, but is there one that sticks out?

Speaker 1: 17:53

I had a teen mom that I mentored because at the end of her child welfare case she asked me can I still like text you and stuff after this case is over? And I was like I would be honored if you would like text me and stuff. And she did. And she turned out to be a very dear family friend and, um she's, she got married as an adult. She, she was a teen mom. So she had her first baby at 18. And we mentored her through that whole situation how to be a mom when you know you maybe didn't have a good role model for that yourself. And then in her 20s she got married and had another baby and she named her baby after me oh my gosh.

Speaker 1: 18:38

So that was probably one of the proudest moments of her baby after me. Oh my gosh. So that was probably one of the proudest moments of my whole career.

Speaker 2: 18:42

Oh, my gosh, that is incredible. It sounds like you really made a strong bond and relationship with this girl, that is, you probably were able to help change her life. And what were some of the ways that you were able to help her? Like, what for a teen mom who's coming and is looking for help, what are, what are those resources that they're going to be getting when they come to you for help? What, what are those steps that they need? I know every story is different, but a basis do they get, like tested on anything? What is the process like?

Speaker 1: 19:14

For me, it was just being with her and acknowledging that it's hard, right, no matter who you are. I was 30 when I had my first baby and it was hard. I called my mom a lot, so just to have someone to call when baby won't stop crying and you feel like you're losing your mind. I'll be right over, it's okay. It really is hard. It's not in your head. There's nothing wrong with you. That's what they need. That it is hard, it's not in your head.

Speaker 2: 19:39

There's nothing wrong with you.

Speaker 1: 19:40

That's what they need. That's what we all need, at any age. Yeah, is someone just to be there and validate that what they're going through is tough, but they can do it.

Speaker 2: 19:46

Yes, oh my gosh, that's incredible. Thank you for sharing that. I would like to ask you how do you foresee the role of technology influencing family law practice in the coming years, or do you think that that will be a thing with whether it's with AI? Is that helping you guys in any way? Anything at all perhaps.

Speaker 1: 20:06

Well, right now, a technology we use a lot for parents who have trouble getting along is co-parenting apps. There are quite a few of these co-parenting apps where, first of all, there are quite a few of these co-parenting apps where, first of all, they record every text you said. So, wow, you know there's some pressure there to be nice because it's going to be there forever, but also they have an AI aspect to them that if you write something horrible to your ex like you're a terrible person, may you burn forever in hell. It will suggest that sounds a little harsh. Perhaps you meant to say, oh my goodness, your last message hurt my feelings or whatever. So rewrite your text to be a little less aggressive, and that goes a long way.

Speaker 1: 20:56

Oh, yeah, a long way for people who are still learning how to co-parent.

Speaker 2: 21:00

In the heat of the moment. Yeah, words are very powerful, so I didn't even know that this existed. This is so cool.

Speaker 1: 21:07

Yeah, it can't help everyone. If you're determined to be mean, it will eventually have to let you do that. But sometimes it helps people to just take a breath and say you know what that was mean, that was not going to be helpful.

Speaker 2: 21:20

No, yeah, absolutely. Oh man, is there anything perhaps that I have not touched on that you would like to share? Whether it's about yourself, your business, your industry, anything at all, you have the floor to get the word out there.

Speaker 1: 21:35

Well, I mean. So if you look at our website or business cards, our logo is two little acorns with an oak leaf, and the reason for that is an acorn, if it has the right conditions, will grow into a magnificent tree that grows for hundreds of years. If you put it on a piece of concrete, it's not going anywhere. It's basically a rock, right? So what we really try to do at Vaughn Family Law is create those conditions where your children can grow strong, your family can grow, and also, internally in our own business, we try to create conditions where we, the employees of the firm, can do our best work and grow as well. So that's the image that we chose, because we really just want to help everybody thrive and, if you want a place to be nurtured, come on in.

Speaker 2: 22:29

I love that you really put some thought into that and I really appreciate that, because I'm like, oh, I don't know, I just came up, but yours really has a deeper meaning, and that's so true. I remember I tried to grow an acorn. I put like a cotton ball with like water in a cup and it started to grow, but I don't know why it just stopped. It probably gave it too much water or something.

Speaker 1: 22:48

But I love it.

Speaker 2: 22:51

And that was a great analogy. For that, my final question is going to be do you have any goals that you've set for yourself or for your business that you would like to share for this new year 2025?

Speaker 1: 23:03

Well, as a brand new firm, you know we're growing and we just want to get the word out in the community that kids come first and we're here to help your family Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 23:12

I love it. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and getting to chat with us. It was an honor.

Speaker 1: 23:17

So super fun. Thank you, you're welcome.