Speaker 1: 0:30

My name is Patrick Lee. I work for a company by the name of Union Home Mortgage. We're a nationwide lender licensed in 48 states. Services I provide for my clients are really helping them achieve the dream of home ownership. Or, for your seasoned home buyers, I would help investors with investment properties as well. But primarily we handle the financing side, even though we work very closely with real estate agents within my business.

Speaker 2: 0:58

Okay, and can I get a little bit of a backstory about yourself and like just getting to know you and how you got into your industry and what made you interested in being part of the mortgage lending services?

Speaker 1: 1:10

It's interesting you ask, as most people don't go to school to become a mortgage advisor in their career. So going back. So I've been in the business now for almost 20 years, so got into it back in 2005. Prior to that, I was managing health clubs. Not sure if you ever heard of Valley Total Fitness.

Speaker 2: 1:31

I have. They used to be so big, are they still?

Speaker 1: 1:34

They're not around anymore. I think LA Fitness bought them out and some other gym companies bought them out. But I did that for about five years, started off with personal training and then became a branch manager and managed about three to five different health clubs during my career. But at some point in time I felt like I was capped. I couldn't make any more income than what I was doing and I wanted to continue to progress. So actually one of my best friends left the industry, got into the mortgage business and he was like, hey, dude, you got to check this out. These guys are wearing three-piece suits, they're making a bunch of money. And I was like, listen, I don't know anything about mortgages.

Speaker 1: 2:16

Haven't even owned a house before, let alone rent. I was still living with my family at the time and I took the leap of faith, got an interview. I remember driving two hours over to Columbia Maryland I used to be from Philadelphia and went through a three-stage interview and then got the job.

Speaker 2: 2:33

Wow, congratulations on that.

Speaker 1: 2:34

Yeah, and then I jumped ship and just never looked back since then and it's, it's been a great ride.

Speaker 2: 2:40

So that is incredible, like and you just like made my mind have a flashback to Valley total fitness, cause I just stopped hearing about them. I didn't know, I haven't heard that name in a bit. What was the transition like for you? Cause you know, like you said, you'd never done this before, you didn't have like prior knowledge to this, so did you have like a coach or a mentor? Did they train you, did they help you like scale upwards?

Speaker 1: 3:02

Yes, there was plenty of training involved. In fact, when I first started we would start in the processing side first, basically go through the process of what a customer goes through. You know organizing case files, piecing everything together, going through processing and underwriting. And once you graduate that part, you know, within anywhere between three to six months you can then get into the sales force. So at that time I was working at a call center where we got inbound leads for clients that were doing consumer direct mailing and eventually I just got used to it and, uh, you know, work ethic wise really helps because you do got to put in a time to learn something that's especially brand new. So I took my time, learned the business. Naturally, I'm a caring type of person. I care about my clients, I work with my coworkers and, just you know, took a lot of pride in making sure that I let people the right way and just continued the career since then and fell in love with the business.

Speaker 2: 3:59

I love that and that's so important to care about the people that you're working with, your clients, right. Having their best interests. So I think that's a wonderful career path that you've chosen by the grace of the worker, gods, or whatever you want to call them. And then can you share a little bit about the type of clients that are coming to you? What is it looking like? Is it, I guess, like you said, seasoned homeowners who are looking to invest? Is it new homeowners? Are you seeing like a lot or less of that?

Speaker 1: 4:31

Actually all of the above. So when I started my career at the call center, the downside of the business is you really don't get to meet people face to face. It's much more meaningful when you get to meet them face to face. You get to see their interactions, you get to interact with them. So when I did that for about 10 years, one of my coworkers just recommended. They said hey, you should go self-generating your own business. You got the personality for it, you care about your clients, you do a great job at what you do. And I had no idea what that was about because I was just taking inbound calls from customers that I didn't even know and just providing the more solution over the phone. So when they introduced to me hey, you got to go out and network, I'm like what's that? What do I do for that? How would I meet people? And basically I took a leap of faith. I met one of my good friends today, nicholas, and at the time he was a seasoned mortgage advisor that's been doing it for years. He was ready to take it to the next level run an area and then run a region eventually. So he introduced to me my first couple of relationships as realtors, because realtors count on us to help their clients go through a pre-approval process, making sure the transaction's handled smoothly. I'm still friends with both of them today after over a decade of working together, so majority of my clients now are basically through word of mouth.

Speaker 1: 5:55

The way my business has been the past decade is, by you know, either repeat clients that have worked with in the past or their close friends, their family members. My goal is to always be their trusted advisor on that end. You know, just like any industry that you can think of, everyone always has that individual where you're like, hey, if you need something on this field, this guy I got you. Yeah Right, we always want to be that particular guy. Um, so fast forward. You know we get recommendations from you know realtors recommending other real estate professionals to us. You know clients recommending their kids now to me or their good friends, their coworkers. So roughly about 40% of my business is actually through you know past clients.

Speaker 2: 6:37

Wow, that's amazing. You're doing something right. Do you think that's what kind of makes you stand out from a lot of people? Is that you're very people centric, would you say that's something that makes you stand out?

Speaker 1: 6:47

Yes, that would be extremely important because you you work with people, because you trust them, you like them and you trust them and, at the same time, you believe in what they do as well. Right? So when it comes to home buying, there's just so many emotions that are involved. It's one of the biggest investments that you're going to make in your life. So first time home buyers are one of my favorites to work with because they're so great, right with the process. They have no idea what to expect. They have no idea how escrows work. You know when the first mortgage payment is. So there's a lot of handholding involved. Yeah, and being in our business, you really got to have a heart of a teacher and also patience at the same time, because you're also managing their emotions too.

Speaker 2: 7:26

Yes, very stressful.

Speaker 1: 7:28

Scary.

Speaker 2: 7:28

Yes, yeah, I would be like escrow. Did you say scarecrow? I'm feeling, wait what? I'm just kidding. But no, that's so funny that you say that and that you're helping all of them so that way next time they can become investors and now they know who to come to, who to recommend, and the next time around they know what goes into doing all of that right? So that's incredible. And then let's see what trends are you currently seeing in the mortgage market right now?

Speaker 1: 7:57

So trends now it's slowed down compared to 2020, 2021, as far as activity of purchases goes, and a lot of that has to relate to interest rate shock. So during 2020, we pretty much hit record lows in a lifetime that you've never seen before and a lot of consumers were kind of spoiled by that. And thinking back in the 80s, when my parents first purchased a home and had a mortgage, interest rates were in teens. They were 13%, 14%, 15%. So after seeing a few years of very low record interest rates, it's caused a lot of home buyers to just take a pause, hoping that rates are going to drop down to those levels.

Speaker 1: 8:41

Unfortunately, I don't think that's going to really happen. So a lot works out on educating the consumer, letting them know hey, here's the history of things, here's what's typically normal within a market. So the market's now more normalized, but we're still catching up on inventory. So the trend of that there's a lot of builders that are building left and right these days. There's still multiple offers that are going on within a market, especially our local market here in Northern Virginia but for the most part, when consumers need to buy everyone needs a house to live in right.

Speaker 1: 9:14

And when you have kids that are graduating from college, they're living in your basement. Eventually they got to move out at some point and give their mom and dad some freedom. Um so so. So it's a need, but through educating, letting them know hey, this is what the, you know what the market trends are. But if you're going to hold long run, it's always worth it to invest in your first home which doesn't have to be your dream home, but it'll be a stepping stone for you to at least to get started.

Speaker 2: 9:41

That's right, yeah, and then for your business, are you currently having, I guess, team members or employees partners? Talk to me about your team.

Speaker 1: 9:51

So I do have a team. So after all these years, the team members we have is a total of six currently. So we have a few loan officers and we also have our operational staff too as well, because the job there's a lot to do. When it comes to the mortgage process, I like to stick with what I love doing best, which is really the advisement side of things meeting people face to face, handling those consultations as we go through everything. But then we also have our backbone as well, right, because we're only as good as our team.

Speaker 1: 10:23

So we also have our processors in place. You know our loan officer assistance that's going to help our clients go from in process all the way up until closing and just making sure that we keep them informed throughout the entire process. So it's always a team effort. Um, luckily enough, we're blessed to have everything in house and we got the ability to move the needle really quick to meet the demands of the local market. So it's it's been a great ride so far. I've been with the company so far for about six years and really, really enjoying it.

Speaker 2: 10:47

That's awesome. Congratulations for that. And then for marketing cause. I know you were talking about knowledge and educating the client. What are you doing to market yourself and the type of insight that you have? Because you have so much insight? For example, you just mentioned giving the history of what the market used to look like, the numbers of all that I feel like that's something that you could talk about online and share, like maybe just making some reels, obviously, like put little captions on it. What are you doing out there, like is that maybe in the plans for 2025 or you're already doing that, maybe?

Speaker 1: 11:18

Great question. So it is. So we have a lot of plans and goals that are set for 2025. I have a regional marketing rep that's helping me with that, so we're going to start putting out the social media, the reels. I've always been very camera shy over the years, but internally we're very high touch when it comes to our clients. So we have about 36 touch points throughout the course of the year as we're communicating with our customers. There are software programs that we use to keep a client posted on. Hey, this is your market analysis for this particular month and also quarter. So this way we're always accessible.

Speaker 1: 11:55

We touch base with our customers on our anniversary dates to do an annual review. All the time. Birthdays we're reaching out to our clients because those are special moments for them House anniversaries as well. We also do education courses, too, when it comes to investing in homes in the future, for the clients, for the clients Nice. So my database of clients are in the thousands. So what we would do is we would reach out once a quarter and host homebuyer workshops, whether you're a first-time homebuyer or a season one looking to move up or move down. We hold these courses online, but we would like to have a further outreach and that's going to be the focus for 2025. Nice, this way we can help more. Help more families out.

Speaker 2: 12:36

That's awesome. I love that you've got that planned out. I will be looking forward to seeing that I need to follow you on Instagram and see, so that way I can like repost and be, like y'all want to get educated on your finances and mortgage. Hit Patrick up.

Speaker 1: 12:52

Absolutely. A lot of that has to, you know, deal with coaching. So you know, a lot of us have great work ethic right being a loan officer. It's it's it's not a hardest job in the world, but it's also not the easiest job in the world as well. So when I, when I, first started with this company, they had a great coaching platform. So this is where we have our top producers that are in the company. You know that's closing up a tremendous amount of business and there's basically no secrets. You know we teach each other.

Speaker 1: 13:19

So since I've been involved with the coaching program, three years into it, it's completely transformed my business from the way that I manage, you know, clients coming in through the process flow, the follow-up system afterwards to make sure that we're providing the service that the client needs and continue to stay in touch with them.

Speaker 1: 13:38

So it makes it so much easier for a loan officer to have that particular type of guidance. You know, when you work with a bunch of people that's been doing a business for 20, 25 years and they're willing to share their secrets with you, you know we don't have to recreate the wheel. All we got to do is basically just duplicate and add on to it. So I'm also a national mortgage sales coach as well for my company internally. So I help loan officers on a regular basis. We have two semesters a year and we just go through the coaching platform and just help them exactly where they need help with their business. Good part about that is we focus on all avenues, not just for the work realm, whether it's life, spiritual, money, saving money Not a lot of people know how to save these days, so 70% of consumers are in debt, especially over the past four years, so we try to give back as much as we can and also help our clients out when it comes to the education part on that side as well.

Speaker 2: 14:36

That's incredible. I think that's so awesome to have that community and network available, because sometimes people find that secret sauce and they're like I don't want to give my insider secrets away. And the fact that you guys are like working with people who already have done it and then they're're passing on that torch to you and then you're willing to help other people, I think that's great. And just building that community that you can come to me whenever you need something or you don't know how to implement this method, let me help you I've done it before is great and I think that that's awesome, that with all the knowledge that you have, you're able to just give back and let people know I'm right here.

Speaker 1: 15:09

It's very refreshing.

Speaker 2: 15:10

Yeah, thanks for sharing that. And then let's see. Can you explain the difference between fixed rate and adjustable rate mortgages, and when each might be ideal?

Speaker 1: 15:21

So fixed rates is when a mortgage is fixed for the whole entire life of the term of the loan. Adjustable rate mortgages are mortgages that are fixed for a certain period of time. Usually you have either a fixed rate for three years, five or seven, sometimes up to 10. And then it becomes an adjustable rate mortgage. Now the benefit of an adjustable rate mortgage is that the rates are lower in the initial start of the process.

Speaker 1: 15:45

Key word initial yeah, initial would be the first three or five or seven, depending on what the consumer is going to pick. Yeah, initial would be the first three or five or seven, depending on what the consumer is going to pick. So, with interest rates being higher compared to what things were, you know, two, three, four years ago, because rates have hiked up quite a bit since then, you know some consumers have lower affordability for home prices and home prices have surged as well. So to kind of counteract that, to get lower payments, there are solution programs for that and one of them would be adjustable rate mortgage loans. There's also other products that can help out with that too as well.

Speaker 1: 16:21

Our company offers what you call a two-one buy-down which, if we can get sellers closing, cause help during their purchase. It allows the consumer to save 2% off of their regular rate that they lock on the first year. The second year is a 1% discounted rate and then the third year it goes back to normal. Most of the time it's going to be in hopes of hey, hopefully within two to three years from now the market comes down a bit and just rates drop, and we always keep an eye on what the consumer is doing or what their mortgage is looking like every year through their annual reviews.

Speaker 1: 16:49

So if it benefits the consumer to refinance and bring their payments back down or adjust to a different type of mortgage, these are some things that we take a look at. But generally it creates affordability and you will be able to help a family get into a home, versus if they were to do a fixed rate, they might be a little bit uncomfortable with that payment at that particular time. So it's a great solution or product, but at the same time we've got to be careful and make sure that, hey, once the payment is um, it's is in full rate form after the adjustable period, that it's still financially comfortable for them because they have their annual raises and so forth, if someone's on salary to kind of counteract that. So so even though arms are favorable for that particular reason, we also got to be very cautious to make sure someone is not overextenuating themselves based on the regular financial expenditures that they have.

Speaker 2: 17:39

And this is why we have the mortgage advisors, because we would be so lost and not knowing what's best for us or what works for us. So I'm so glad that you're able to break these things down, because sometimes I'm just like, what did he? I'm not a home buyer, as you can probably tell by my jargon not being so great, but hopefully in the future I will be. But this is all good stuff to know, and I'm sure other listeners who are entrepreneurs or maybe thinking about getting another home, they've got so much insight here. Absolutely so, thank you. And then I wanted to ask you something about tech. I can't remember what it was, but do you feel like technology is going to help you guys when it comes to, I guess, finding what the best loans are or mortgages for people with refinancing? Are you guys using any AI or implementing anything like that in your industry?

Speaker 1: 18:22

So far we're not. There's a lot of buzz in the industry implementing AI and even when I talk to my loan officer friends, you know, sometimes they have the concerns like, hey, do you think AI is going to take over the job? You know, and I don't think so, because when you go through something as major as buying your very first home or second home, there's so much guidance that's involved right, and making sure that we understand that the customer situation emotionally, what's also very important for them as well, and also planning for the future that's ahead, yeah and so, and there's so much handholding that's also involved too. There's a lot of questions that you're going to get randomly as we go through the process, and I think AI you know as much as AI is there to help us, it's not going to be able to overcome everything or give the proper guidance to the consumer, so I think I think it's still a one-on-one yeah you know level of service that's going to be needed for that yeah, I definitely see that like.

Speaker 2: 19:17

If you're like super nervous and you're typing stuff, the computer's not gonna be like. I can assure you that, it will just be like giving you whatever you ask it or whatever. So that human connection and touch and being able to see that person like excitement or worry is, I guess, priceless in AI Not yet, but hopefully not We'll be able to do those things, because sometimes I get worried about AI. I'm like it could imitate my voice and pretend to be like get away from me right now. That's pretty wild.

Speaker 1: 19:40

Right.

Speaker 2: 19:40

Yeah, absolutely. And then, when you're not helping other people with their home dreams and goals, what do you like to do to unwind? Is there anything that you like to do to set boundaries or reset yourself, to take care of your mental health?

Speaker 1: 19:55

Yes, so I enjoy working out. My son's 14 now and he's at the phase where he's like, hey, I want to beef up, I want to gain some muscles, I'm going to high school, I want to get into things. So we work out together and that's. That's one way that we unplug Aside from that, just spending a lot of family time with the kids. You know, unfortunately, I grew up and my dad passed away since I was 11 years old.

Speaker 2: 20:17

So you know.

Speaker 1: 20:18

You never know what life is going to bring you, or you know when we're going to go away one day.

Speaker 1: 20:23

So while I'm here every single day, my goal is just to you know, be the best father husband mortgage advisor I possibly can and just spend the quality time with, with your friends and your loved ones. Um, you know, aside from that, my daughter's into she's into singing, she's into dancing, so I support a lot of what she does as well. And, uh, my wife, we have date nights. You know we try to do a date night, you know, at least every other week week, every other weekend, if possible, every week one day together, just to go out and spend that quality time because our job demands so much the time and hours.

Speaker 2: 21:00

Where does she work? What are her hours? Like Also, you guys like I can't see you today, babe, but I'll see you later today.

Speaker 1: 21:07

So she starts her day really early, she gets up at 5 in the morning and she works for the school system for Loudoun County. She used to do medical coding. When I first met her for forever In 2020, things were very well and I was like, hey, you know, she wasn't happy with her job at the time, so she took a leave for about a year and then, after a year later, she felt very bored. So I was like you know, well, what do you want to get into, what do you want to do? And she told me she wanted to start her dream job. I was like, well, what's your dream job? And she told me she wants to be a school bus driver. I was like why?

Speaker 2: 21:41

in the world. Do you want to?

Speaker 1: 21:42

be a school bus driver for your dream job. So she she indicated she wanted to be the first person that the kids would see when they leave home yeah, to pump them up. She's a really rah-rah person Love it Very, loving, outgoing. She's a great time right and kids adore her and she wants to be the last person that they see before, you know, the kids go home. Yeah, and she's been in love with it so far. She's been at the job for about four years and you know I Christmas cards presents all the love from the children that she's been taking care of since day one, from kindergarten to whatever grade.

Speaker 2: 22:25

That makes me so emotional. What the heck? Let me stop.

Speaker 1: 22:29

So it's been amazing, and I love the fact that I can help support her for her to follow her dream and do her dream job, but she's been really enjoying it.

Speaker 2: 22:37

Yeah, and do her dream job, but she's been really enjoying it. Yeah, I was going to say that's so awesome that you guys have that support system and that you were able to, like, help her get to that dream and that fact that she's been doing it for four or five years now and she's doing it. She loves it, the kids love it. I'm happy to hear this. This is. This is awesome. Thank you, yeah, absolutely. Um, where do you see yourself for the next five years, as a person and with your business?

Speaker 1: 23:01

five years as a person and with your business. So with my business, let's start with that. My goal is to continue to grow. I would love to hire, you know, mortgage advisors down the road. Go through the training and help, you know, provide that better service within a local community area. So continue to build out the team over time. That's a career path in the future because as I retire, one day I may not be able to talk to as many people or, you know, go out and do all the face to face. So I figured if I would train others, you know, I can multiply that particular effort Right and more people will be able to get the help that they actually need. Um life-wise. We would love to have a vacation home in California and Florida down the road. I the road. I was born in California originally. What part? La, los Angeles?

Speaker 2: 23:42

Me too, I was born there. Oh awesome. I don't remember because I was a baby, but I was born there, Okay.

Speaker 1: 23:47

Yeah, so my mom was actually. She was in a Chinese movie theater in Chinatown. I speak Cantonese, my background is Chinese and Vietnamese. Nice and Nice and 8 pm. You know, her water broke. Next thing, you know, I went to French Hospital, which is right in Chinatown, and that's where I was born. And when I was eight we moved to the East Coast. But we have so many family members in the West, so one day my goal would be to get my mom back there so she could spend more time with her brothers, her sisters her nieces nephews and just be around family more.

Speaker 1: 24:19

Um and Florida is just because we love the beach and when it's really cold it'd be nice to just get away and enjoy some sunshine.

Speaker 2: 24:25

Right now I'm not feeling that Like. I barely want to get out of bed Cause it's like so cold and then you walk on the cold floor. I'm like I want to go back to bed.

Speaker 1: 24:32

I'm naturally a warm person. Good, let's keep it that way.

Speaker 2: 24:35

We've not been living here forever. Yeah, I know How's that like with the snow, because you know, sometimes some years it's like oh my gosh, armageddon snow, and it's like nothing. And then sometimes it's like we're not going to get anything and it's like surprise, there's like 12 feet of snow outside right.

Speaker 1: 24:48

Yeah, global warming is happening too.

Speaker 2: 24:50

It is.

Speaker 1: 24:53

We've had a what have never seen before. I've been living in Virginia for 19 years.

Speaker 2: 24:57

Yeah, a lot of people don't think it's real, but I'm like, oh, it's real and there's signs to back it up too. So don't get me started on that.

Speaker 1: 25:02

Every year it's getting warmer and warmer. Yep.

Speaker 2: 25:04

And then let's see if you could debunk one myth about mortgages, what would it be?

Speaker 1: 25:10

So needing a big, gigantic down payment. A lot of people are under the conception of needing 20% down or more. That's like the old bank rule and that's really not the case. I mean there are grant programs that are out there. There are first-time homebuyer products where you can get away with even just zero down. You know USDA mortgages you have to buy in a USDA area. It's going to be a little bit more agricultural.

Speaker 1: 25:35

In fact Loudoun County is considered as USDA approved. There's 100% financing that's offered for that and if your income as a family or individual fits a certain threshold you could get away with this little three, three and a half percent down. So people are kind of shocked by that and when they see the benefit of homeownership education is really key Most people don't really understand the true benefits behind it. Instead of just building equity in a home by natural appreciation, we get the benefits of doing things like writing off your property taxes, writing off your mortgage interest at the end of the year. That's always nice, you know, especially as a W-2 wage earner. You're paying the federal government taxes and having you know the mortgage to help offset the amount of taxes that you pay could be huge for a family at the end of the year.

Speaker 2: 26:27

I'm not even like aware of this Again I'm not a homeowner, but this all sounds amazing. So this is why you guys better hit up Patrick literally, because, like he's just dropping knowledge and insight here for free, so we're so thankful. Yeah, is there anything maybe that I have not touched on that you would like to share with our listeners? Whether it's about your business, your family, more mortgage tips, anything at all, it doesn't have to be in relation to the whole conversation we're having.

Speaker 1: 26:51

So in relationship to family and my business, I would say encourage your younger generation. Or, if you're straight out of college and you got a great job going on you've been working there for a year or two years don't spend the money on buying a fancy car. You know I made some mistakes in my life. You know, in my early 20s I was, like, really into riding motorcycles, sport cars. So I did all of that and fast forward. You know, thinking back, no one ever taught me, you know, how to build wealth while I was younger. So now I'm preaching to my nieces and nephews that have graduated. They got a great job.

Speaker 1: 27:29

Listen, don't spend your money furiously. The first thing you should do is get housing right, because if average appreciation is three to 5%, you get a half a million dollar place. You can even rent out a couple of rooms to your roommates and build that wealth for yourself as early as possible. There was an article that came out I think it was earlier this year by moneycom and average homeowner has 40 times more wealth versus an average renter, and a lot of that is through pure equity. So I wish when I was 19 or 20 or 21 years old, someone would have brought me down that particular path, because there were so many opportunities that were missed during that time. And if you're interested in buying, get started as early as possible. That's the biggest tip I think I can give someone.

Speaker 1: 28:16

Whether you're self-employed or you're working a job, if you're thinking about buying a house down the road, talk to a professional as early as possible. Go through the pre-approval process. This way, in the event, if there's anything that you need to work on, you got plenty of ample time to work on things ahead of time, whether it's savings, it's credit or just simply getting yourself prepared to move. These are some things that you should start as early as possible, even six months to a year in advance. Yeah, so that would be my advice. Teach your younger ones not to overspend and get a property as soon as you can.

Speaker 2: 28:52

And this guy offers coaching too. So if anybody out there is interested, hit him up. I'm telling you like all this knowledge and wisdom is priceless.

Speaker 1: 29:00

Happy to guide you through, thank you.

Speaker 2: 29:02

Okay. So my final question is going to be one that I ask everybody. It's do you have a quote, a saying, a mantra, maybe a song lyric, maybe something someone's told you in the past that has stuck out in your, in your mind, and would you mind sharing that with us?

Speaker 1: 29:17

Actually, I just went through a us, actually, I just went through a um.

Speaker 1: 29:21

I just went through a partners coaching partners event within my company and our ceo was there talking.

Speaker 1: 29:27

You know, I don't know the exact words that he said, but he indicated that if you want growth, comfort doesn't come at the same time. So true, and it and it's so, so true because, with what we do, a lot of it's all about discipline and some uncomfortableness level, because you're learning new things, you're doing some new things and naturally, as human beings, we just want to be comfortable with what we're used to. But if you're looking to grow, you've got to continue to challenge yourself. So it's important to embrace the uncomfortableness, the change, in order for you to continue to grow. Just like mentally, in the back of your mind, it's like waking up and just brushing your teeth. It's something that you're used to doing, you don't have to think about it. But the more you discipline yourself and making sure that, hey, you're on the right path, you're growing, embrace that uncomfortableness and once you prevail, you're going to continue to grow. So that's I thought that was a really meaningful takeaway for me, oh, for sure.

Speaker 2: 30:27

And it resonates with me too, because sometimes I get really comfortable with, like what I know and what I'm doing, like robotically, and I'm like I know how to do it and what I do, I do great. But whenever there's like, hey, you're going to take on this task, hey, you're going to do this, I'm just like, oh, but then I'm like, once I get over that, I'm like, hey, I just added another tool to my toolbox, right, exactly.

Speaker 1: 30:45

So so, from your first interview of that level of uncomfortableness to after doing it a hundred times, you know now, it's just like clockwork, right, exactly.

Speaker 2: 30:53

Same.

Speaker 1: 30:54

Thing with anything that we're going to learn. That's how we got approached.

Speaker 2: 30:56

Literally my stomach would hurt, I would sweat, I would, I just would be so nervous. I'd be more nervous than the person. I was like podcasting or interviewing, and now it's like riding a bike, now, who knows, now I'll have to do conferences in front of a thousand people and I'll be like shaking in my boots and then boom, I'm amazing at it. I'm just kidding, but yeah, thank you so much for your insight, your wisdom, all. Thank you so much for your insight, your wisdom, all these tips and insights. Again, this is amazing stuff to know and for people who are looking for insight with their homes, refinancing, investing. It's been a pleasure having you here.

Speaker 1: 31:28

Thank you. Thank you, thanks for having me Appreciate you guys.

Speaker 2: 31:31

You're welcome, thank you.