Speaker 1: 0:30

So I'm Dr Gary Sprouse I'm the less stressed doc, okay. And so I used to be a primary care doctor and I retired in December of 2023. And so now I've written a book Highway to your Happy Place a roadmap to less stress. And so now my job has turned into trying to help people have less stress so they can be in their happy place the rest of their life.

Speaker 2: 0:51

Yeah, and before I get into more detailed questions about this, because I do have some questions for you how did you get started in your industry? I know you've retired from being a primary care physician. Talk to me about what led you down this road and what inspired you to write your book and get to where you are today.

Speaker 1: 1:06

Yeah, so I started with some of the ideas of this book like 25 years ago. So I wrote some of it and I tried to get it published. 25 years ago that didn't go very well, and now I know why because I wasn't that good of an author in those days. But over the next 25 years I was like I did reading, I talked to people, I tried some things out. But about three years ago I was attending a conference and they were like what would happen if you didn't do what you thought you should do? And I was like I've been telling my patients I'm writing this book on how to have less stress. I've got to get this book done. Yes, yeah. So three years ago I was like, okay, it has to get done. So then it became the priority.

Speaker 1: 1:43

And you know, as a primary care doctor, patients come in all the time and it's an interesting process. It's safe to come to the primary care doctor and say hey, I'm depressed, I'm anxious, I'm whatever. And when I say you should see a psychologist, because then they have to tell somebody oh, I'm seeing a psychologist, but seeing your primary care doctor, no big deal, right? So I decided either I learn how to do it myself, or I realize most of my patients aren't going to get the help they need. So I decided, hey, I'm going to do this myself.

Speaker 1: 2:10

So I did a whole lot of reading and part of it was how patients, but part of it was the research, the book, and so now I feel really comfortable helping people with their psychological stuff, and I already have the training to be the medical doctor, so I'm combining both. So somebody said, well, you're a holistic doctor, and I'm like what? Oh yeah, I guess I am Right. Yeah, it felt weird to say, but no, that's the way it is and I've made me a better physician and a better help to my patients.

Speaker 2: 2:36

Yeah, no, that is incredible. Now I want to go back to the point where you said happy place. What is the happy place?

Speaker 1: 2:42

Yeah. So this was an interesting thing. So I would say to my patients so if I go, I'm writing this book on how to have less stress. And they're like, oh, I need that book. And I'm like, yeah, okay, I like, yeah, okay. I'm like, but where would you be if you didn't have so much stress? And they looked at me like I don't know, I never really got that far. I only thought about having less stress, right? So that actually because I had been writing this book on how to have less stress. But then I realized no, people need to know where they're supposed to be, because it's like I was at some lecture the other day and they're talking about GPS. I'm like, if you go I was at some lecture the other day and they're talking about GPS. I'm like, if you go, hey, give me less stress that doesn't show up on GPS. If you say, hey, where's my happy place? Oh well, that at least have a chance to show up, right? So how do I get there, right?

Speaker 1: 3:23

So I had to define what a happy place was, which was not as easy as I thought. So I'm researching, reading, thinking myself, talking to people. Here's what I realized that everybody's happy place has the same rooms. They all have like a kitchen and a bedroom and a living room. So they all have the same rooms, but they decorate it different. So they might have different kinds of furniture, different painting, different painting on the wall, right. So everybody's rooms look different, but they're all the same basic structure, right? So then I started like so let's identify the structures. So the structures are.

Speaker 1: 3:58

The first one I talk about is contentment, and so contentment is that balance between the negative things in your life and the positive things in your life, and everybody has a certain level Like. So some people are really super contented, other people are not very contented at all. One of the nice things about contentment is you can change your contentment level just by changing your perception. You can get a whole lot more contented just by changing your perception. And one of the ways to do that my wife and I did a missions trip to the Dominican Republic and we went down there to help a church or it was actually a school build a cafeteria. So we're there and our mattress is on the floor and the shower which they had a shower this time, because before it was a bucket shower, now they have a shower, but it was a trickle of water. That was, it wasn't cold, but it was cold, but it was not warm, yeah, and so when we got home, it was like, oh, like, all of a sudden, my contentment level went up.

Speaker 1: 4:50

Yes, because I saw what other people do and how other people live and I realized how much. And this will lead us to another one, which is gratitude, right, yes, so gratitude is really important. So it turns out if you're feeling gratitude, it's really hard to be angry, like when you're feeling grateful, just to be alive. So I tell people I have my 50-point scale right. So I wake up in the morning and I get 10 points because I'm still alive.

Speaker 1: 5:13

Yay morning and I get 10 points because I'm still alive. Yeah, right, yeah, my wife's still alive. Another 10 points, right, I got running water, I got food and I live in a safe place. 50 points just by opening my eyes in the morning. How freaking nice is that. And guess what? You can do that too, right, yes, yeah, so it's, yeah.

Speaker 1: 5:27

So gratitude is another one of the rooms. Then there's pleasure, and I add love and fun and all that kind of stuff in there, and pleasure. The interesting thing is that it's fleeting. So, like I'm going to do this podcast. It's like, oh, that's a pleasurable thing, right, but like next week it'll go back down to my level of contentment. Or like, well, because that's the way pleasure is, it comes and goes, yes, so you need it to come and go. You don't want to be super high, all the secret time, right? So my wife and I are getting ready to go on a vacation in December and we just came back from one in July and it's like so, we had pleasure there, and then it goes back down, then it go back up when we have the next one. So pleasure kind of comes and goes and it goes back to that level of containment.

Speaker 1: 6:15

But then the next piece and this is unique to humans is the anticipation of pleasure. So the anticipation of pleasure is something we have because we can envision the future. So my dog does not have anticipation of pleasure, she just has. She's eating and she's happy, or she's not eating and she's laying there like a rug. She doesn't go. Oh, next week we're going to. No, that doesn't happen. So we can have anticipation. That doesn't happen, right, no, right. So we can have anticipation.

Speaker 1: 6:35

And the cool thing about that is like the vacation that we went on. We just came back from the Rockies, right, and so we thought of like, for months going oh, this is going to be awesome, we're going to see this, we're going to see that. And in our anticipation there's never a delay in the plane, or the flight gets canceled, or our luggage gets lost, or we get lost in the car trip, or we end up in a car Like none of that ever happened. So anticipation is even better and it can go on for a long time, right. So we like this trip we have in December, that's three months away from now. The trip only lasts two weeks. I got three months ago. Oh, that's going to be awesome, yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:12

So we have that, so we gratitude, the oh, that's going to be awesome, yeah, so we have that, so we gratitude. The next one is fulfillment, and so fulfillment is made up of a couple of things. So it turns out, humans are very curious, and so curiosity is a way of life for us, because that's how we learn our environment. So we're driven by pleasurable sensations to go look around and check things out, because we need to know where all the plants are, we need to know where animals are that we can eat, we need to know where dangers are. So we're a very curious organism, so learning is using that. So learning involves our curiosity, which is a pleasurable activity. So just because you're old doesn't mean you can't learn new stuff, right, because it's a very pleasurable activity.

Speaker 1: 7:53

Second is giving, and this, again, is because of the way we are as an organism. So, as an organism, we're designed to work in groups, yes, so, like, if you look back through history, you know we're in groups of 50 and we're sort of tribal, right, and it's like but those 50 people, dude, we're going to do everything we can to keep those 50 people alive. Well, that's what giving is about. So giving is I'm going to help you and we're all going to be better, right, yeah. And so when we went to the Dominican Republic, we're working our butts off, right.

Speaker 1: 8:27

So we're taking all these, we're building this kitchen and we're taking all the supplies that were dropped off at the gate and taking it 300 yards up, steps and across the yard with our hands with a wheelbarrow and a shovel, and it's like there's no like gas power. Steps and across the yard with our hands with a wheelbarrow and a shovel, and it's like there's no like gas power. This is no, it's all by hand, right. So now I have a. I developed a tick after that. So now, when I see a cinder, block.

Speaker 2: 8:46

I want to go pick it up and move it.

Speaker 1: 8:47

Love that I go. No, don't do it, Right, Okay, but I'm telling you now. We worked our butts off for three days and now we get pictures of it as it got opened up and we're like that makes us feel good, right.

Speaker 1: 9:03

I'm sure they have a nice kitchen and it's great for them, but I'm for years now I'm going to be going. Oh man, remember that time, my wife, when we were on our trip, we went to a restaurant and there was an old man sitting there and we came in and he's like yeah, the service is kind of slow here. Well, we thought he was just waiting to leave. He's waiting for somebody to pick him up. So the waitress comes and puts us in a chair, turns out he was waiting too, and we're like so we ended up ahead of him. I'm like whoa, that wasn't right. So he's sitting in the menu that they didn't have, yeah, so she's like what? So he's butted in front of this guy and then he didn't get what he wanted and he's eating by himself. We got to the front, we're like we want to pay for that guy's meal, right. And I'm like she's like, is that okay? I'm like yeah, it's okay, right, so we pay for the guy's meal. Oh, we didn't want them, like whatever, we just left, right. But we felt much better by giving right. So giving is a freaking awesome thing and it's designed into us because we live in a group and we're used to helping everybody out. Yeah, I know.

Speaker 1: 10:04

And then the third thing is. The third part of fulfillment is what I call purpose, and what I realize is that humans staying alive has gotten so easy that it isn't our purpose anymore. Unless you're on Survivor, right? Yeah, you're on Survivor, like, oh, I got to eat bugs. And you're like, yeah, and like, there's a movie called Castaway and the guy's living on a desert island, right, and so when he figures out how to drink water and how to catch a fish, he's like jumping up and down, excited. And I'm like, yeah, like he may figure out how to make a fire. I'm like, dude, just take a match. Well, he didn't have a match right, yeah, right.

Speaker 1: 10:36

So for him, that was a really super big deal. So for us, we've had to come up with other reasons to get us fulfilled, right, to give us a purpose. And so, as a doctor, that was my purpose. I was here to help you write your prescriptions, help you through crisis, whatever. But now I'm retired.

Speaker 1: 10:53

A lot of doctors get into trouble because they're like what am I supposed to do with myself? What's my purpose? It's done now, right? Yeah, you know, my kids are growing up and I'm not a doctor anymore. What am I supposed to do? So for me it was easy, because I was like, oh, I finished writing this book and so now I got to get this book in people's hands so they can be in their happy place too. My wife, who did my billing not so easy, she's like, she hated doing the billing, but when she didn't have it to do, she gets up in the morning like, what am I supposed to do with myself? I'm like, oh, this is a problem, right. So she started to do some stuff. So she, now she's getting her life figured out, what to do besides billing, right? So she takes care of bees, right, so she's a bee, yeah it's great.

Speaker 1: 11:33

Take care of our bees Way more complicated than I thought, right? Yeah, I thought you just stick a box out there and yeah, oh my God, it's way more complicated, right? So she's playing pickleball and so we just started working with this. Well, we're going to start working. It's up in Baltimore and it's built in the worst part of Baltimore and they call everybody in the neighborhood their neighbors and they help them get jobs, they help them get reunited, they help them with single mothers, they help them with education, they help them get this and that, and I'm like I want to be involved with that. So the two of us went off on Friday to check it out and we're like, oh, this is awesome. We're coming up with a lot of ideas to help the guy answer. Good stuff, right?

Speaker 1: 12:16

So then the last piece is an acronym I call CASH. Cash, yeah, right. So here's CASH. So CASH stands for being connected, which we all like. Being connected, being accepted, meaning people like us for who we are, and we want to feel safe, and I'm going to go into that more detail in a second. And the last piece is hope. Right, who doesn't need cash? Right? We all need that, and there's some people, right? There's people out there like if you have a drug addiction. You've been shunned and ostracized and put in jail and put in halfway houses and taken away from society for 30 days without a phone. Like no, they need cash more than other people. What a nice happy place, right? And I can show you how to get those pieces right. Those are things I can teach you, and then you can be in your happy place.

Speaker 2: 13:07

Yeah, that is incredible. I love that. The type of person you are is very much so giving and helping others, and the fact that that brings you joy is just incredible. I love that. I love that you want to help others and you do it in kind of a little spontaneous, crazy way where it's like it's okay, I'm going to leave. It makes me happy. I'm glad I did that. Thank you for sharing that with me. I would like to also plug in. You said you have a podcast.

Speaker 1: 13:35

Before we get more, I want to plug your podcast in case people want to hear more of what you have to say. I'm having so much fun with that right Way more fun than I thought. Right, this is good, so I want to be you right.

Speaker 2: 13:47

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: 13:48

Yeah, so it's called Happiness Highway and we drop two episodes a month and they may go up. I don't know, it's having so much fun. That's what we're doing now, so, yeah, so we talk about where's your happy place, your happy place? We get to interview guests.

Speaker 1: 14:05

Like on wednesday I just did some filming and we interviewed a guy from california who's written 14 books and he has a new app coming out called enlighten and it's an app that you put on your phone and it's a daily exercise where you learn how to do some breathing things and you learn how to here's. Here's what he talks about is leaning into your, your challenges. So instead of fighting against them, you lean into them and you go hey, what is that about? What am I really feeling? And then you do that challenge kind of goes away. He used the analogy of a riptide and he said if you fight against a riptide, you're going to get tired and then die. He goes if you just go with a riptide and let it take you out, then eventually the riptide just goes away and you swim back and it's like yeah, so that's what he talks about. With the challenges in life, I'm like that's freaking hot. But here I get to interview him.

Speaker 1: 14:52

We interviewed a lady who's a yoga master and it's like she teaches yoga and she teaches and she does a lot of work with trauma victims that have had. So she's done stuff for like 10 years helping people get through trauma and one of the things that I learned was that people that have had trauma in their life have a hard time differentiating a safe touch from a not safe touch. Yes, so everybody's not safe. Every time they meet somebody that's not safe, Like how hard is that to go through your life where everybody's not safe and anybody touching is not safe? So she does these things with her massage that she learns, teaches people how to realize, hey, there's a difference between a safe touch and not.

Speaker 2: 15:30

No, yeah, absolutely. What are some roadblocks to reducing stress? And then what are the keys to reducing that stress?

Speaker 1: 15:36

Yeah, so here's the key, right. So that was where the book originally started. Books have a life of their own, I will tell you. You start with one place and they kind of meander somewhere around. Anyway, so now we got this happy place and we've defined it right, so we know where we're trying to get to. And then you're like, well, what's keeping me from getting there? So it turns out there's these roadblocks, and the roadblocks are stresses. And the question then is so where are all these stresses coming from? And there's literally hundreds of books on how to have less stress.

Speaker 1: 16:05

Here's my new insight, and I don't think I've seen this anywhere else. Okay, so I'm a doctor, so I'm used to writing you a prescription for your high blood pressure or diabetes, and I'll go hey, here's this medicine. It's really good, it'll make your blood pressure go down and make your sugar go down. Oh, but it might have the side effect of making you feel dizzy, or it might cost a lot of money or whatever. It might have some side effect. So my job is going to be to make the benefits as good as possible and the side effects as least as possible.

Speaker 2: 16:30

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 16:32

So when I took that concept and I applied it to humans, I was like, oh wait, we have these amazing skills, like we can envision the future. Right, how aggressive, how amazing is that? But it has the side effect is then I have to worry about what's going to happen.

Speaker 2: 16:47

If it all goes to hell.

Speaker 1: 16:49

Right, yeah, so my dog does not worry. No, she's like not going. Hey, is there any food for tomorrow? She's like not worried about it. Like if there's food, she's eating, if she's hungry, she's eating, if she's not hungry, she's not eating, she's not going. What's going to happen next week? Right, so, like there's none of that, so she doesn't have. My one-year-old grandson does not worry because he can't, he can't envision a future. Yeah, no, right, no, that's exactly my point. So psychologists will say, well, just live for today and you're like well, okay, first off, as a human, that's impossible because there's way too much time we spend in the future. And second off, why wouldn't I get my greatest skill? Because it has a side effect. How about we get rid of the side effect? So that's the idea of the book is to say, okay, here's the skill, here's the side effect, here's some things we can do to get rid of the side effect.

Speaker 2: 17:38

Yes, yeah, no, absolutely Thank you.

Speaker 1: 17:40

Yeah, no, absolutely Thank you so I'll tell you. Let me give you one, just to give an example. Yes, please. So worry is one that I see a lot. So I have patients come to me at the office all the time. They go Dr Sprouse, I worry that I worry too much. Oh, I know, right, I go. Well, then I probably do Right.

Speaker 1: 18:02

So I go to them so tell me what worry is, and they're like well, it's, you know, they struggle with some kind of words and they're like they know what it feels like and they can put it in a sentence. And if I say worry, do you know what that means? But then when you start trying to define it, it's actually way more tricky than you think, right, particularly if you're looking for a way to help it and fix it and get less of it right, for a way to help it and fix it and get less of it right. So I came up with this based on my ideas. I go okay, we're going to take the skill of being able to envision the future Amazing skill, right. So, first off, yay, got this great skill.

Speaker 1: 18:37

But then we use that skill to focus on all the bad things that can happen and then, when we see that bad thing that could happen, we have a reaction right now. So that's my definition of worry Looking into the future, focusing on the bad things, having the reaction right now. Well, that's something we can do something about. Yeah, okay. So I first off grateful that I have the skill, because my patients my one-year-old, my dog, my demented patients they don't have that skill. So, as you said, how blissful would that be. But it's also not very successful. My dog needs to be taken care of. My one-year-old grandson's going to walk in front of a car right. My demented patients they're wearing plaids and stripes together, like no, don't do that right. So, yeah, we need that skill. So we got to get rid of the side effect.

Speaker 1: 19:21

So I have a couple of ideas that I use. So the first one is I call realistic optimism. So it turns out, optimism is looking at the future and focusing on the good things that can happen. Well, it's a choice. It's one of the skills we have. We have a choice Well, I can choose to look at the bad things or I can choose to focus on the good things. I'm going to be optimistic and choose to focus on the good things, right.

Speaker 1: 19:43

But and here's the realism part right, I have to realize that, well, there could be some bad things that could happen, so I can't ignore them. I can't run around with my rose-colored glasses. No, I will say that there are many fights that get started, and this happens in my household too. Men tend to be minimizers. They go that's so unlikely to happen, I don't even have to pay attention to it. And women are like no, you have to pay attention to it, this could happen. Like, why do I have to do all the work? You just sit around. I'm like okay, so there's a lot of fights in there, right? So you have to be realistic. You can't just be optimizing Like it's not going to work out. So you have to be realistic, but you don't have to do it with fear.

Speaker 2: 20:23

No.

Speaker 1: 20:23

And that's where people get into trouble. So you go.

Speaker 2: 20:25

What if the plane crashes and you're like, ah right, and then it super crashes and you spent your time doing that.

Speaker 1: 20:30

Yes, exactly there you go. That's exactly what I'm talking about. I see people. What I say to patients is you need, I want people to worry, I want them to pay attention to the future and and look at the bad things that could potentially happen, but do it efficiently and do it without fear.

Speaker 1: 20:46

So then, a second tool I came up with was called a worry organizer. So the worry organizer. It's a way to break down your ideas. So, instead of running around in your head at 2 o'clock in the morning, not letting you sleep, it's written down on a piece of paper. So it takes a little more effort, but you only have to do it once and then it's done right. Yeah, more effort, but you only have to do it once and then it's done Right.

Speaker 1: 21:04

So it's like what am I worried about? So, like, we'll use the plane Right. So I'm worried about the plane crashing. We're like well, why am I worried about? Well, if a plane crashes, I'm going to die. That's not a good thing, right, three so how likely is it to happen? And the other half of that is well, if it does, it's bad. Yes, yeah, okay. So then the fourth category what can I do to make it not happen, so you can fly a rapid or airline. You can check the pilot out, make sure he's not drunk, make sure the wings don't have ice on it, whatever, right, yeah, yeah, okay. And then the last category is well, what do I do if it happens? So what do I do if the plane crashes and you're like wait, well, you're dead, like I?

Speaker 2: 21:43

didn't want to say that, but it's true. Yes, you're dead.

Speaker 1: 21:46

Right, so oh. But if I'm dead, what can I do to make sure that my kids are taken care of? What can I do to make sure that my assets are handled? What can I do to make sure my funeral goes the way I want it to go, whatever? So you now can start planning for that disaster, but without fear. And what I find is when people have it planned out well, then the fear starts going away. Oh, I'm going to make sure my sister is signed saying she's going to take care. I'm going to make sure my will is taken care of. Yeah, hang on a second Stupid phone.

Speaker 2: 22:14

I forgot to turn it off. Sorry, that's okay my bad. I love how peaceful that is.

Speaker 1: 22:19

Yeah, it used to be worse. Oh, stop it. My wife made me change it. Oh, it's okay, but now I can't hear her most of the time, right, yeah?

Speaker 2: 22:28

But yeah, just having that worry, you can prepare, but without like.

Speaker 1: 22:32

Without the fear. Without the fear, yes, and that's where I work. And here's the next thing. So you take that worry organizer and you show it to your spouse, say you think anything else I need to do, or you take it to your doctor. So I had a lady who was worried about breast cancer and I was like, well, what do you, why you're worried about breast cancer? And she's like, well, because my sister and my um, my mother, had breast cancer. So I'm like, oh, that's a lot. So I said, well, how likely is to think you're going to get breast cancer? She goes, oh, a hundred percent. And I go well, if you got breast cancer, how bad would would it be? She goes, well, I'm going to die. So it was 100% I'm going to get it and 100% I'm going to die.

Speaker 2: 23:06

Right, oh my.

Speaker 1: 23:07

Yeah. So I'm talking to her and I'm like so I'm the doctor and I'm like well, let me give you the real statistics. So the real statistics are that you have a 15% chance of getting it if you have a family history and because we're going to catch it early, you have an 85% chance you're going to survive. And she's like wait what? And she got her life back. You could see her whole body change because she was able to tell me what her numbers were and I could give her the correct numbers. And so then her whole life was different because now she got her life back. So then we went through the next category, like, okay, what are you going to do? You know what can we do to make it so you don't have it. And then we got to the last car. You're like oh, look, I can figure out who are the best breast cancer centers are. I can make sure my will's done. I can make sure my husband's going to take care of the kids, right? Blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2: 23:56

And it's like she walked out of my office a whole oh, my goodness, and the fact that people are out there like they are preparing, but it's just that fear and not being able to manage that. I would say that I'm maybe someone who's I like to know everything ahead of time. If something goes wrong, I get like what? Why didn't we prepare for this? And I'm the only one who's preparing.

Speaker 1: 24:14

I'm like I need to not be like Well, so, right at that, right, so do the worry. Organizer, I think there's one on online and it's on. It's called thelessstresseddoccom. Yeah, and I think there's one in there and you can just download it and then you can make one for each problem.

Speaker 2: 24:28

Oh, it's going to be a lot.

Speaker 1: 24:29

Yeah, well, yeah, right, because here's what I find Humans get overwhelmed real easily because and this is one of our skills we can handle more than one thing at a time. My dog does not get overwhelmed, I. I can get overwhelmed, yeah, and I find myself going this is what I call. I call it lumping, lumping. Yeah, lumping Lumping is when you go oh, I got this going on and this and that, oh, yeah, I forgot. And then I got this and you throw stuff on top, yep, yeah, and I go yeah. So when you lump, what happens is you get this big. Where to get started? You're like oh, help, yeah. So the antidote to that is what I call compartmentalization. Okay, so what that means is no one of those problems by itself is overwhelming. It's only when you let them all pile up. So when you keep them separate, then they don't get overwhelming. Now, problems are related, I'll get that right, but the more separate you can keep them, the easier it is to not get overwhelmed. So when I find myself going and I'll go okay, well, we got this problem and what are we going to do? And I got this problem, what are we going to do? And now you can start prioritizing. You're making your list and now you got a to-do list and all of a sudden you're not overwhelmed.

Speaker 1: 25:40

The analogy and a friend gave me this is a shoebox analogy. Oh, hit me with it, I'm intriguing you. Huh, you are. Yeah, so the shoebox analogy is if you walk into your bedroom and there's 100 shoeboxes and the bottom's there and the lid's there and the piece of papers there and the left shoes over there and the right shoes here, and there's a hundred pairs are all over the room, you're going ah, what am I going to do? Right, okay, but come into the same room and now the boxes are all the lids on top, and the paper and the shoes are in there and they're up in the closet and they're all like that's not overwhelming at all. Right, same amount of shoes, same amount of shoe boxes, but it's not overwhelming. So that's compartmentalization. So think shoe boxes. When you start, think call yourself. When you go, oh, I'm lumping. And then think shoe boxes.

Speaker 2: 26:25

Oh my God, hey, you're lumping, yeah, no.

Speaker 1: 26:27

I find like I'll wake up and I'll start doing something like oh my God, I'm lumping stop stop. And I'll go shoe boxes. Yeah, right, Okay.

Speaker 2: 26:34

I'm like what I'll get it now.

Speaker 1: 26:35

So then you take one shoebox down, you look at it, you fit it with it and you put it back up. That's not overwhelming.

Speaker 2: 26:40

No, it's not. Just don't throw it back out there and make it crazy again. That's right. Be mindful of that. Yes, love it. Thank you so much. I love your analogies.

Speaker 1: 26:52

They're so fun girl. Well, I see, I think, when you start looking at most of your stresses as side effects to your skills, yeah well, then you go oh okay, how do I keep the skill and get rid of the side effect?

Speaker 1: 27:02

right, that makes that changes. It's not like again, you're not fighting against stuff, you're like I gotta, I can't be overwhelmed anymore, I can't worry anymore, I worry too much, I'm gonna stop. You look so much like me. Yeah, it doesn't, no. But when you do these other things and you realize what they really are, then you can start doing something about it. And then, as the stresses go away or get less, more manageable, then you get to spend all your time in your happy place.

Speaker 2: 27:29

I'm thinking this is that Amazing. The dream, the dream. All right, and now tell me what is your point system and how does it help people?

Speaker 1: 27:40

Does it boost self-esteem? Oh yeah, the point system. I thought you were talking about my 50.

Speaker 2: 27:43

Oh sorry.

Speaker 1: 27:44

No, no, no, so, yeah. So the point system All right. So here's the problem with self-esteem, right? First off, one of the skills that we have is we have a good. We can say good and bad, like we can say right and wrong, we can say good and bad. So that means, so my dog does not have good or bad self-esteem, she just is right. She's got a scar on her back, a lump on her neck, and she's like she's 15 years old, she doesn't care, she's not going. What do the other dogs think of me, right? So self-esteem is one of those things that's uniquely human, because we have good and bad and we have awareness that we are something different than somebody else, right?

Speaker 2: 28:18

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:19

The problem with self-esteem is it starts when you figure that out. Which is that one and that one? You have memory, but you don't know where it is. So you know, I have a one year old grandson and a four year old granddaughter and we have all these great experiences and when we come up, they're like my nickname is Go Pop.

Speaker 2: 28:36

OK, I love it, go Pop.

Speaker 1: 28:39

So, like Go Pop, can we love it? So we have all these great memories, but when she's 10, she won't remember any of them.

Speaker 2: 28:45

Oh, right, unless you video record.

Speaker 1: 28:47

Well, she'll get to see them and she can develop the memory afterwards. Yes, but the problem is that she won't have what I call direct awareness. So what happens is things that happen when you're one through two, three, four, five are in your head and affecting your decision-making process, but you don't even know they're there. Wow.

Speaker 2: 29:04

Like are they shaping you?

Speaker 1: 29:05

right? Yeah, so that's your self-esteem is being shaped while you're two and when you're 20, you don't even know what that was about, right? No, so people that end up with low self-esteem. It's difficult because it's been going on since they were one.

Speaker 2: 29:21

And so I'm not even aware of that.

Speaker 1: 29:22

Yeah, right, and so what I see then is you have to figure out a way to get them in a different path, right, yeah? So one of the things that I talk about is we have tracks in our head and it says so. One of the tracks says hey, you're not a good person, and we have this process, and I call it the four Ds, and basically manage information that comes in through that. So we have this thing that says you have low self-esteem. So somebody comes along and says hey, you're a really nice person. You use your four Ds and you're like wait, what? That doesn't fit with what I think. I think I'm not that nice a person. So they oh, they must not know who I am really, or they're exaggerating, they're lying.

Speaker 1: 30:01

They're lying or they must want something else, right, and it's like but if somebody comes along and says, oh, you're a schmuck, and you're like ugh, I don't like that, you're a gnat, but they're right, right, so it works. The opposite person, somebody says, hey, you're a really good person. You're like yeah, that's what I thought, right, thanks. If they say you're a bad person, like wait, what's going on here? Right? So there's a dissonance and so it tends to be self-perpetuating. So you got to get out of that. So one of the things you have to do is start. So what I found is most people have some good self-esteem but a lot of bad self-esteem. So what I say is like we got to find the track that says you have good self-esteem and bolster that and feed that, and this one we have to like, retract and get less right.

Speaker 2: 30:42

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 30:43

Yeah, psychological books on self-esteem, and they all say you should love yourself no matter what happens, and you're like well, that's a nice thought, but when I got an award the other day, I felt really good about myself. And when I didn't get the award the other day I didn't yeah Right, you got it. I didn't say that.

Speaker 2: 31:08

I did, I did Caught yeah.

Speaker 1: 31:11

Okay, so here's what I found right, like most people don't keep track of their achievements. Like you got water for me, thank you, you're welcome. Like that's an achievement, like I didn't have to go out to a stream and go find water, it was right there, right Achievement. Right. Like there was indoor plumbing Achievement right, ac's on I woke up in the morning, ac's on, right, electricity is working. So all these things that we don't take, we take them for granted. They're all achievements. And when you start accounting all your achievements, there's no way you can't be positive, right. And it's like what we do then is go, hey, I've watched people. And they go, hey, I got that award. And you're like well, that's great, for them it was one point, and For them it was one point. And then they go, yeah, but I'm overweight, so that's minus 10. And you're like wait, what? How did that happen? Right, what kind of system.

Speaker 1: 32:02

But this is how we do it. Yeah, so what you see is if you're giving yourself minus 10 for every bad thing and you're giving yourself zero or one for every good thing, that's a hard thing to keep up with, which is why people end up with low self-esteem, but if you give yourself 10 points for all of your achievements so I had a patient do this and he called me about halfway through the day. I said I want you to write down all the things you're supposed to do, all your achievements for the day. So halfway through the day he calls me and says I can't do this anymore. I'm like why? What's up? He goes my hand's cramping up. I'm many freaking achievements. My door opened. Yes, right, we just don't take. We just don't take credit for it. So if you do that, then there's no way you don't have a positive achievement score, which then makes you feel good about yourself. And the same thing happens with our image of ourself.

Speaker 2: 32:48

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 32:48

So we all have this image of ourself in our head, right? And here's what I think is that it changes every 10 years, which is why decade birthdays are so bad. So when you're 29, you still have the picture of when you were 20. Yeah, but when you're 30, you're no longer in your 20s. So now the picture changes and it's usually not as flattering as it was. Yeah, I know, right, so, but we do the same thing, so it's the same thing. It's like, so you go. So I had patients. They were like well, I'm an alcoholic and I'm like okay, so give yourself minus 10. Do you work hard? Well, yeah, so give yourself plus 10. Do you take care of your kids? Yeah, plus 10, right, so there was way more plus 10s than a few minus 10s, and the minus 10s you could do something about yeah. So she stopped drinking and guess what? That minus 10 went away. Yay.

Speaker 2: 33:34

Yeah, absolutely. I want to also touch on another thing that kind of plays a role with self-esteem, I think, and I'd like your opinion on it. Sometimes we can be hard on ourselves and we think the achievements that we do aren't as good because we're constantly comparing to other people, and I feel like that is definitely something that we need to be aware of as well, that we all have different stories, we all have different upbringings. Can you talk to me a little bit?

Speaker 1: 34:01

about that. So there's two things that I want to say about that. One is you have to pick the right group, right? So I have a patient like that. He was in a wheelchair, okay, and he's like oh, like I can't do this and I can't do that. And I'm like you're comparing yourself to people who can walk. Stop doing that. Compare yourself to people that are in a wheelchair. And he's like what? And I go, and they're 50 years old or whatever. I'm like you're like going to work, like I have a patient who was chopping wood in his wheelchair. I'm like compare yourself to the right group and then it goes better. Number one and number two is there's got to be a meter in your head, and the meter in your head has to say hey, everybody else's opinion is better and mine doesn't count, or my opinion is the only one that counts, right? I mean, there's like Mother Teresa and you know narcissists, right?

Speaker 2: 34:48

Yes.

Speaker 1: 34:48

Okay. So we're, all you know, somewhere in that range, and what I try to get people to do is kind of tip it. I don't want everybody to be a narcissist which, trust me, is never going to happen but I need them to be a little bit more. Hey, give yourself more credit than you've been in the past, and when you shift that meter of even a little bit, guess what. You feel better about yourself, absolutely, and you don't worry so much about what other people are thinking and saying about you and the comparisons don't matter. So I found myself like I'd read this in a book and said it doesn't matter how good you are, there's always going to be somebody better.

Speaker 2: 35:20

Yes, that's true.

Speaker 1: 35:21

And I'm like so if I'm in the top 10%, good for me, right, right. If I'm in the top 50%, good for me, right. And if I'm not, then I go, hey, do I want to take pickleball than I am and I don't care, right? I don't really want to be a better pickleball player If.

Speaker 2: 35:40

I wanted to.

Speaker 1: 35:44

Karaoke singer that I want to be good at Right.

Speaker 2: 35:46

Oh my gosh, yes, my wife and I.

Speaker 1: 35:48

we had a karaoke wedding Yay.

Speaker 2: 35:50

So did you both sing the whole night, or did you also bring some of the oh?

Speaker 1: 35:53

no, we had other people sing right.

Speaker 2: 35:55

Love it.

Speaker 1: 35:57

We had one person. This is a song they sang before he cheats.

Speaker 2: 36:00

I don't know that one.

Speaker 1: 36:01

Oh yeah, by Carrie Underwood. You're right. I'm like, yeah. When she got off the stage I was like this is my wedding. What the hell are you singing that song to my wedding? Are you crazy? And she goes what's the only song I know? And I'm like, well, then you're in the same, you're right. Yeah, it's not good.

Speaker 2: 36:19

That was funny, though You'll never forget that, no right. So yeah, our song is Love Shack which we've been doing around the world, right yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:27

We've done it in Iceland, mexico and cruises.

Speaker 2: 36:29

Love it.

Speaker 1: 36:30

Yeah. But at the wedding she said to my wife going, you can't wear a costume. I'm like what? I'm like no, wait seriously. She's like no, you cannot. So I snuck in a wig and some glasses.

Speaker 2: 36:42

Of course you did.

Speaker 1: 36:43

And so now I had this afro and I got these sunglasses and I'm singing Can't Touch this. And I'm going can't touch this, right. So she comes twinkle-toeing in front of me. I'm like what, you didn't think, you're going to get the stage to yourself. And I'm like, oh, I married the right woman.

Speaker 2: 36:57

You guys are quite the character. Are you guys on social media a lot like doing dances and stuff? Because I could totally see you guys doing that.

Speaker 1: 37:04

No, we haven't done that very much, but yeah, I can see that in your cards. So people say to us who's the better karaoke singer.

Speaker 2: 37:15

I go go Dynamic deal. You guys feel in each other's love. That All right. And then how can we unburden our heart from the past and minimize guilt and regrets?

Speaker 1: 37:26

So. So here's the key, right? So one of the things as I'm doing my research, I keep hearing guilt and regret using interchangeably and as I started looking at to it, I was like wait, they're not the same thing, they're totally different things, so they need different treatments. Right? So it turns out guilt is a shame reaction and it's shame to. You did something wrong, you broke a rule. Okay, regret is a whole different thing. Regret is I made a decision and it didn't go as well as I wanted it to, so I regret making that decision. But those are different things. Now they have similarities. So they both are involving the past. So they're both things.

Speaker 1: 38:07

You don't feel guilty about something you didn't do yet. You should only feel guilty about something you did. So it's always in the past, which means that you can't really change it. So the only thing that you can do is change what you do as you move into the future. So if you were like one of the things I write about is like somebody got a speeding ticket and they got 10 speeding tickets and they're like and they never changed, and they're like, but then they got a speeding ticket and they killed somebody or they injured somebody, right? So then they go oh my God, now I feel guilty and now I'm going to change my behavior because I don't want that to ever happen again, right? So what I found is, if you start going, hey well, what rule did I break? Then you're like oh well, wait, I didn't break a rule, right?

Speaker 1: 38:54

So there's two examples that I'll give you. One is I was talking to some women about this, right, and I go so, tell me something you feel guilty. It was actually I had men and women in the room, right. So I go tell me something, write down something you felt guilty about. So the women are like, and the men are like, looking at the ceiling, going, I don't know, maybe this one. It was like such a different reaction.

Speaker 1: 39:13

So literally every woman said I feel guilty, that I didn't spend enough time with my kids, and I was like, okay, well, that's not guilt because you didn't break any rules. That's regret. Like you made a choice that I had to work and money and a certain amount of money was important so we could live, and I had to sacrifice some of the time I have with my kids. And now you're looking back on oh, I wish I had spent less time at work and more time with my kids. I wish I had spent less time at work and more time with my kids, but it's in the past so you can't really change it right?

Speaker 1: 39:40

But then a woman came to me she said Dr Sprouse, you're not correct. I'm like what do you mean? She goes well, there is an unwritten rule that women are supposed to take care of their kid. So when you're not, then you're breaking that unwritten rule. So you do feel guilty and I'm like ooh, so I had to learn something, right. So in that regards there was some guilt and regret. So it's a combination, right. But my wife tells a story and she just told us the other day that her son was on a really good soccer team and she was working and she only had three days that she could take off, and so they had a quarterfinal, semifinal and a final. So she decided their team was so good they were going to kill the other team that she was going to skip the quarterfinal and just go to the semifinal and the final, because those are the days she could take off. The team lost.

Speaker 2: 40:28

Oh, darn Damn.

Speaker 1: 40:30

So at first she thought she was guilty. But then we're like no, that was regret. See, that was regret. See, that's how you can separate it out. You didn't break any rules. The choice she made wasn't good, right.

Speaker 1: 40:40

So then the question is how do you fix that? Well, so one of the ways is to go okay, it happened, I can't do anything about it. In the past, I can't change what happened. What I can change is how I go into the future. So for this guy who was speeding, he can go. You know what? I'm not going to speed again because I don't want to end up in that situation. And if he does that, then he doesn't have to feel guilty anymore Because guilt did what it was supposed to do by changing his behavior.

Speaker 1: 41:05

Because that's what guilt was designed to do is set up by society to say, hey, don't do that Right. And when you don't do it, then you're following what society is saying Yay, then the guilt did. It was supposed to stop feeling guilty in yourself, absolutely, with regret, you can say, hey, how did I get to that decision? And the next time I'm going to go through? So I bought a computer system based on my office manager's recommendation. Nobody else in the office knew how to use it, and so I said to her like you're coming, you're staying right, she goes, go, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 41:43

And then we bought the computer. It didn't even arrive yet and she came, said somebody offered me twenty dollars an hour more, so I'm leaving. I'm like, oh all right, panic, all right. So I could, I could have regretted, saying why did I buy this computer system? But I went back through my decision making process and with the information that I had at the time, it was a good decision and I would make it again, right. But what I would do the next time is go, oh wait, I got to make sure somebody else besides one person knows how to use this. Yes, right, so it would change my decision making process.

Speaker 2: 42:07

No, thank you. And thank you for being so descriptive and very detailed, because sometimes these concepts can be like, for example, you just comparing regret and what's the other one I'm so sorry Guilt and regret that kind of can the lines get a little bit blurred between that. So you going in depth for that and showing that it helps people realize where there are things that you can control and cannot, and you shouldn't have to live your life that way.

Speaker 1: 42:35

No, and what I see is particularly with guilt is that people beat themselves up yes, mercilessly, right, yep, and I'm like you got to stop, like it's way over the top, like you don't need to do that, and so one of the things that I there's a book by Desmond Tutu and his daughter, mafu, and it's about forgiveness, and what it talks about about is there's four steps to it and you have to say, hey, you have to tell your story, because too many people have had something that they felt bad about and they don't tell the story and they hide it, which takes a crazy amount of energy, right? So when you tell the story to someone who's willing to listen, who's not negatively judging you, it's such an unburdening thing. So I have patients all the time. They would tell me stuff they would not tell anybody else because it was safe.

Speaker 2: 43:17

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 43:17

And they felt so much better. I can see why in the Catholic religion they have confession because it helps you people, because it's like, oh, there's somebody in the world that knows my secret.

Speaker 2: 43:26

Take some guilt and shame off their shoulders.

Speaker 1: 43:28

The second thing is taint and name the hurt. So it doesn't mean by telling your story, it doesn't mean you're ignoring the fact that somebody hurt you because it hurt, right, that wasn't nice at all. And the third thing is talk about forgiveness. And what forgiveness means is not just saying hey, I forgive you. It's hey, I forgive you because you're going to change or I'm going to change whichever right. And then the last piece is you have to renew or reject the relationship. So what that means is I can say you did something mean to me, like I've had. Like in the book he talks about somebody hit their child and killed him.

Speaker 2: 43:58

Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 1: 43:59

Yeah bad, right, but somewhere along the line they forgave him. They said well, you know we don't like what you did, but we're going to forgive you, because not forgiving you is damaging to us, but we're never going to hang out with you again. Yeah, Right, but another couple. They went through this whole process and they ended up turning out Like I just heard a story in the news this lady, the guy, had killed her son and he ended up in jail. And in jail they started talking and when he got out of jail she got him to be living next door and I'm like what? Yeah right, so she was able to forgive him. He felt better because he was forgiven. I think personally that this became her son and this became the mother he never had, and so they were able, through this horrible situation, come out better for it. How freaking nice is that.

Speaker 1: 44:52

Now it took effort and it took some accommodation and it took some insight and it took some energy, but it's like, like it doesn't have to be. Oh, I hate your guts forever, like that hurts you as much as it hurts them.

Speaker 2: 45:06

You're so right, oh my gosh, absolutely no.

Speaker 1: 45:09

So the hard part is forgiving yourself. That's where I found the hard part, because you don't have that option of like yeah, you know I'm not going to see you ever again, like you're stuck with yourself forever. So you better, like you got to really work it out, right. So that's why in the book, when I talk about you know what rule did you break? And? And have you changed your behavior, it starts changing. You know where you're at.

Speaker 2: 45:29

So yeah, oh, thank you. Um, I have a couple of more questions here. I could literally um or um, yeah, we're just um. Okay, just gonna ask the final questions here. Are you planning to do any seminars and speaking engagements to reach more people? How about an online course? Anything in the works?

Speaker 1: 45:46

uh-huh, yeah. So I really enjoy doing seminars and so, yeah, I have one coming up. I think it's coming just probably come up in a couple months. One of the things that I've learned in my seminars I used to do seminars I said, hey, come and have less stress. And nobody showed up. And I'm like what's going on here? Because obviously lots of people are stressed out.

Speaker 1: 46:04

What I realized is people don't like to admit. They don't mind admitting they have too much stress. What they don't like to admit is that it's so bad they need help and they're not willing to do that. And so now I'm changing it to go hey, let's get you to your happy place and while you're here, we'll talk about ways to have less stress, right? And I also found that talking about five or six stresses was way too much information for people. So I'm going to just tone it down and just like hey, let's talk about worry. Hey, let's just talk about guilt, or let's just talk about being overwhelmed, and I think that that will work much better. But there's an online course that's already been filmed, so I'm waiting for it to get edited and come out. So that's going to be. It's broken up into like six sections and there's like 15 minute segments so you can listen to your car. You can do whatever you want, right.

Speaker 2: 46:49

Beautiful.

Speaker 1: 46:49

Yeah, so it's cool and you can. You know it'll be, there's a charge to it, but it'll be like, hey, if you buy the whole package it's less whatever.

Speaker 2: 46:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that's great.

Speaker 1: 46:57

I love that there's also an audio book coming out. That's the same thing. It's been filmed or it's been taped and recorded, so I'm just waiting for it to get put out. So it should be out by the end of next month Amazing.

Speaker 1: 47:20

And where would? Both of these books are awesome and you can get them on Barnes and Noble and you can get them on Amazon. But I just was involved in with Jack Canfield, who wrote Chicken Soup for the Soul, okay, and so I was a co-author. So there's me and 29 other people, right? So it's called Mindset Matters, which is an awesome book, because what I found is mindset matters right, it really does matter, right.

Speaker 1: 47:40

Yeah, okay, so I wrote my chapter. Anyway, it became a number one bestseller. Yay, so that makes me a number one bestseller, yay, so, anyway, so that's cool. So actually next week no, two weeks from now I go out to Santa Barbara and week I got an award. So you get this Quilly. It's a cute story, so you get this award for being an unborn bestseller. It's called a Quilly, right? Yeah, so I'm in a tuxedo, I get my award, I come back to the table and there's some other people at the table and the guy goes well, I got one of those two years ago I was like, oh, that's awesome, Right, he goes.

Speaker 1: 48:15

yeah, here's the problem, I go. What did you do? He goes. Well, I just had it carried around the airport.

Speaker 2: 48:19

I'm like wait what?

Speaker 1: 48:20

So here he has carried his board around and people are like, oh my gosh, what's that? Can I get a selfie with you?

Speaker 2: 48:28

He's like he was a superstar. That's so cute.

Speaker 1: 48:32

No, I did not. They in a box to fit in, so I didn't have to be that guy Very, very nice, all right, so where can people find you?

Speaker 1: 48:41

Yeah, so I have a website called thelessdresseddoccom, right, that's where most of this stuff is. And then I have an email lessdresseddoc at gmailcom. And so, if you have some particular questions, or because here's what I found, when you're writing a book, like I wrote the book, somebody just reviewed my book and said, well, it's not very technical. I was like, I didn't write it to be technical. That's not a negative, that's a positive. I wrote it so people could understand it. I don't need a psychiatrist to understand, I need people to understand. Yes, so, yeah. So it's out there for people to read so that they can understand it. That's the key, right? That's what I really want.

Speaker 2: 49:19

Wonderful, no, and I'm glad you didn't make it technical, because sometimes that can intimidate me.

Speaker 1: 49:24

There's a book that I'd read and the guy had really good ideas, but he's writing in like eight syllable words and like you don't have to, like you don't have to show off, right.

Speaker 2: 49:34

Like you're a doctor, we get it.

Speaker 1: 49:35

You show off right Like you're a doctor, we get it, you got your degree. The goal is for you to get something out of this and change right. So that's the way I wrote the book. So that criticism.

Speaker 2: 49:46

I'm like you know, fine, I like that criticism. That's good, love it All right. So my final question here if you could leave our listeners with a mantra or a message or anything that you like to live your life by and use as inspiration, what would that message be? Okay?

Speaker 1: 49:54

so here's what I tell people, right? I've seen so many people. When I tell them I'm writing a book on how to have less stress, they go I need that book because I'm so stressed out. Lots and lots of people, in fact most of the people that I meet. When I say that that's what they say to me and I go well, do something about it.

Speaker 1: 50:09

Because what I see is that people resign themselves to this is the way it has to be. I just have to be overwhelmed, stressed out, there's nothing I can do. That happy place that you talk about, that's a mirage, right. And I'm like no, don't resign yourself to being stressed out the rest of your life. Pick up my book, pick up somebody else, I don't care Somebody, do something you don't have. It's what the word is learned helplessness where you go. This is the way it's going to have to be. No, it isn't the way it has to be. There are ways to make it different and I think my way is a good way and I think it can definitely help you. I've had patients come back to me and go your book changed my life. And I'm like, yeah, awesome, right, it can change your life too.

Speaker 2: 50:51

Wow. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast and sharing so much insight, so many of your tidbits from your book and how we can use those strategies to better our lives and keep that stress under control. So thank you so much for being here today.

Speaker 1: 51:04

Thank you for having me. This has been so much fun Absolutely, and if we help somebody out there, yeah, even better yeah.