Speaker 1: 0:30

My name is Kori Hamilton-Biagas. My business is called Just Educators and we're a consulting firm. We support organizations and creating spaces of belonging and inclusion.

Speaker 2: 0:43

Love it. I would like to get more into detail with that, but before we do, I would like to have a background about yourself, about how you got started, what you're all about, what led you to where you are today.

Speaker 1: 0:57

all that good stuff, yeah so I would say that I have a heart for service and so, starting back as a child, I worked in my church. I was all over the place and then, once I went to college, I started doing volunteering at schools and tutoring with kiddos and I really liked that. However, I wanted to be a doctor, which I think is related to the service piece, right, but I was at a very competitive college for medicine and basically one of my professors was like you're on the track team? Yes, well, every minute you spend practicing, you spend competing, you spend traveling, somebody else is studying. And I was like, yeah, that's totally facts, so, yeah. So I pivoted from that to, like English major performing arts, which I also enjoy.

Speaker 1: 1:57

I became a teacher and I was looking around at the kids I was supporting and just feeling like you all are getting a raw deal. Kids are magic. I think kids are just amazing and if you set expectations for them and you tell them that they can do it, they will do it. And the adults, I was noticing, were the barrier. And so I left teaching to pursue my graduate studies in order to meet with adults, in order to start working with adults, because I figured if I was able to support and intervene in the thoughts, biases and behaviors of adults, it would have a greater impact for kiddos Absolutely. And so that's how it kind of started. And then it evolved into working with different organizations, doing some of this work and finding that my values and their values weren't always aligned and deciding that I should just do my own thing because I wanted to be moving in my purpose and with my values and not have that kind of cognitive dissonance of operating in a way that did not align with who I was.

Speaker 2: 3:16

Yes, yes, no, I love that and I love that you're all about like helping the youth and seeing that you were like how can I bridge that gap between it, how can I help those barriers? And you were like I'm going to go right to the source. You know the adult, that's okay, but like no, and going back, you're an educator, consultant. I want to talk about your business and the purpose of it. So, from my understanding is that you are helping with educating in equity when it comes to race and having those conversations that may be uncomfortable but need to be had. I know some people are just adamant about that, but I think what you're doing is absolutely amazing and needs to happen and I'm glad that it's happening and I'm glad that there's people out there. Talk to me a little bit about where you're coming in with people, business, industries and helping them bridge their gaps and all that.

Speaker 1: 4:19

Yeah. So I started realizing, like, education is my background, the education space, but people are everywhere. And entering into workspaces I was realizing, wow, these things that are present in schools are living and existing in communities and organizations all over the place. And so one of the things that I, one of my entry points into a lot of organizations, particularly on the corporate side and nonprofit side, is training.

Speaker 1: 4:57

Nonprofit side is training, facilitating trainings and discussions around difference, around identity, around bias, and helping people to confront the shadows of stuff that are informing their behavior, informing their decisions, and a lot of times it's not intentional and so it's. We need to shine a light on those things because it's impacting the way in which you are interacting with people, and so I consider myself an architect of culture and climate transformation, because it starts with people and we have to be able to support people in holding up a mirror to see those blind spots, and then we can begin to allow those things to show up in our policy and to be supported by our practice and to be able to hold people accountable in a way that's constructive and doesn't feel like you're being penalized. So that is kind of how it's evolved and moved. The entry point is often training, a keynote, some sort of like workshop, and then it typically will grow into something that is more long lasting and more impactful, because one workshop doesn't do that solve anything.

Speaker 1: 6:09

It just it helps to build a little bit of awareness, but it doesn't begin to change behavior and change mindsets. It just starts to illuminate some concepts for people.

Speaker 2: 6:19

Yeah, have you had, and I'm sorry if this is like a crazy question, but like maybe it's not pushback by people and how do you handle that?

Speaker 1: 6:30

Yes. So one example that really jumps to mind is I was doing some work with a state department of education and we were facilitating some trainings around equity as it relates to school climate in particular, and I had a co-collaborator on this particular presentation and we were really intentional about not saying white privilege. We wanted to talk about privilege as it relates to many forms of identity and not only whiteness. However, when we were doing some debriefing, some people were very offended by what we had said. I mean, if the shoe is fitting, sorry yeah, and you get met with those things like I'm not a racist, I have Black friends.

Speaker 2: 7:31

Oh gosh, I hate that.

Speaker 1: 7:32

Yes, I served with, so you know this identity of people. You know and I had to just point out really clearly, like we'd never said this phrase white privilege. We never used those words together, but the fact that just talking about privilege was this triggering for you is an indication that there's something that needs to be unpacked there for you. Yes, right that the fact that your response to us talking about privilege across varied identities is combativeness is an indication that we touched something in you that you either didn't know was there or were not ready to uncover, and now you are taking those feelings out on me.

Speaker 1: 8:20

But this is not my issue. This is your issue that you need to work with, and so oftentimes I try to support people in looking at themselves, right, like you're projecting this tension and this angst that you're experiencing your body out toward me. But the truth is you need to be reflecting on what is causing this anxiety, what is the root of this response that you're giving us and you know, like, why is me talking about privilege, something that bothers you, right? Why is me talking about privilege, something that bothers you, right? And helping people to kind of navigate those discussions to say and what is wrong with feeling something differently? What is wrong with having a different set of ideas, opinions or beliefs? What is wrong with what I'm saying in terms of how it orients around your values?

Speaker 1: 9:14

Privilege is a thing that exists and so that, why is it hitting you so hard? So just talking through and helping people kind of reflect is my strategy for persisting, because the conversation still needs to move forward and so it still needs to be had, and so I do my best to not allow those people to derail discussions by turning the focus back on them, yes, and to create space for you to kind of share, but then putting it back on you to reflect, so that we can continue to move forward.

Speaker 2: 9:49

Yes, and I feel like sometimes, anytime someone is about to maybe talk about the subject, about privilege or the inequities that are happening, people just automatically think like oh, woke this, woke that? Or like will you stop and listen to what we're talking about? They're like they're not even going to listen, they're just ready to be like oh, what was me, what was that? Like you're not even listening, You're acting like a child, You're not listening to what I have to say, You're not having a conversation like an adult. So it's like how can you help people who just don't even want to be helped? But there is an issue, but they're not. They think that there isn't and it's just reductive.

Speaker 1: 10:37

We start with them. Right, or that's my strategy. It's like you have to start with yourself. You have to start with looking at what you're embodying, how you're moving. Who are the people around you we talk about?

Speaker 1: 10:48

I talk about bias and privilege just educators, my team of consultants in a way, that's like everybody has it. This is not something that any one particular group owns. Everyone has bias. However, we live in a society that was built on racism Like that's just the truth and it hurts to hear it, but it's the truth and our society, these United States of America, were founded on genocide, enslavement and subjugation, and so those are not things that I'm blaming you for, but these are things we have to be able to agree to be truth in order to dismantle and disrupt them.

Speaker 1: 11:44

Right, it's like my ancestors did not come here voluntarily, so someone telling me to go back to Africa is kind of comical, because your ancestors did come here more voluntarily likely. So why don't you return to the place where your ancestors originated? Because my ancestors did not choose to come here. When we're talking about the Latina community, latinx community, it's like we took Mexico, a huge portion of Mexico, in the Louisiana purchase Purchase I'm going to use better quotes. And so why are we now so obsessed with the southern border that we created by Columbus-ing the land that did not belong to us, right, right? And we're very, very focused on that border, but we're not talking about the ways in which our government has destabilized those countries for our gain, and now the people from those places are coming here for refuge and to seek the dream in which we are promising.

Speaker 2: 12:54

Right and then they're just like. I don't understand why.

Speaker 1: 12:57

Well, look within yourselves. Look within yourselves. And so, as we're having these difficult conversations, it's like where did these ideas around immigrants come from? Where did these ideas about black people come from? Why do you think that white people have had more access? Because the system was designed for them to do so? Right, like Ruby Bridges, who integrated schools when she was six or seven years old, is still alive. She is 70, right, she's my parents' age and so it is not that long ago.

Speaker 2: 13:35

No, and that's crazy, that is crazy you. So it is not that long ago. No, and that's crazy, that is crazy. You read it in the history books and you think it's like 1940s. But, and that's a strategy, right.

Speaker 1: 13:43

Presenting these images in black and white makes them feel farther in the past. That, even though there are lots of color pictures of Martin Luther King Jr, right, there are lots of color images of Malcolm X, color images of Rosa Parks when she was young and disrupting, and so but we orient this content in a way to make it seem like it's a distant past and that makes it harder for people to connect. But when you tell somebody that this woman who integrated the school, and there's all these pictures of angry adults screaming at this child, those adults are still alive, many of them, right, the children who were yelling at her are still alive. They are CEOs and judges.

Speaker 2: 14:36

And right there, I don't think about that. You know. So when you say and break it down like that, holy crap, holy crap, yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:43

You know, but they are still living and they raised children. So to me it feels like we have all this oppression happening around our history. In this country. We're banning books and all this kind of stuff, and I think part of that is because those people who are in those photos don't want their grandkids to know who they are. Right, that makes sense. Those people are, even if they've evolved.

Speaker 2: 15:09

they're ashamed of that behavior and if they haven't evolved, their grandchildren have evolved right and they're like cowering away from that Right, right and so this idea that my grandmother, who was 91 years old, couldn't purchase a home without a man is not that long ago. That's insane, but it's facts.

Speaker 1: 15:39

But it's facts, and so that is how I try to approach these conversations. I say to people how many people in this room know someone who's 70 years old? How many people in this room know somebody who was born before or around 1954? A lot of people, a lot of people. How many people in this room were alive in 1965 or 63? Lots of people Still here. And so you were on earth when these atrocities were taking place, with this apartheid situation in the United States ongoing.

Speaker 2: 16:12

I really do feel that people are so used to the way that they were living. Like when I was doing this, there was nothing wrong with that. Like it's not that it's sensitive, it's just that that was so insensitive that it blows their mind Like no, we used to act like this, like back in the day, like this was okay, but it was not okay. It was okay for you to do it. But now that we're putting our foot down, now that people are putting their foot down and saying like look, we deserve the same respect that you have, it's like mars for them. Like you need to understand that things change. Nothing stays the same, and it for the better. Things should not stay the same, because that's just, it's not right, yeah, and it's not fair, right, and it's not about just complaining about it. But like how are we supposed to just put our heads down and be like okay, maybe they'll see the light one day? Like no, no, we don't want to wait, people don't want to wait and we shouldn't have to no.

Speaker 1: 17:07

This is supposed to be the land of the free, yes, and so we should all have access to that freedom, and it should not be at the expense of other people. If our freedom talking about the age of some of these trailblazers and them looking around, it's like those are your peers, those are your aunts and uncles, those are people who are still performing right, like Bon Jovi saved someone's life the other day.

Speaker 2: 17:51

I'm not aware of this story. Okay day.

Speaker 1: 17:57

Yeah, I'm not aware of this story. Okay, he was recording a music video and there was a woman on the side of a bridge and one of his production people went over and started talking with her and then he stopped and he went over and started talking with her and they talked her down and brought her back over the bridge, gave her a hug, all the things, and I said to myself, like he's doing God's work, right, there was a person who was in need and it was not anybody else's job to go and intervene and support that person. And that's what humanity should be like. Yes, right, like we see people in distress and our reaction, our response, should be to support that person. To help that person. Yes, not to say, oh well, it's not my business, it's not my business or they're this color and so they might. No, it's like this woman was in distress, very clearly, and it was everybody's job who was there to help intervene. If you're a decent human being, if you're a decent human being, if you're a decent human being, yep.

Speaker 2: 18:59

Yeah, right, there's that part, yes.

Speaker 1: 19:01

Yeah, yeah, and I think that that's part of why some of the conversations are difficult for people, because they're actually not decent human beings, right, and they don't want to be different.

Speaker 2: 19:08

They just are required to be at the training and they think, like we're trying to like take over, do something, and it's not even that, like it's so, not even that. It's literally just wanting equity, wanting to be seen, wanting, just wanting to not be seen as something like, oh, they're crying about this. I just I hate that so much that when people say like, oh, what are we going to change today? Or what are we going to like cry about today, it's not even that. It's just that it's been like this for so long that for you it's so hard to even comprehend that it's not. This is just the bare minimum, and you guys think it's like and fear and ignorance perpetuates that right, right, this idea of so.

Speaker 1: 19:54

When the bridge collapsed in Baltimore, right, there was all this narrative around the DEI mayor for Baltimore. The mayor is a 39-year-old black man. Right, baltimore is 70% black. So if the mayor were white, it would be a DEI mayor, right, mm-hmm? So this language that we're using is coded for something else, right, but DEI didn't earn it is literally most of Congress, most of the Senate, many of our presidents. Legacy admissions in schools is DEI, but you're calling it something else because you have resources, but that's DEI, right, how convenient, how convenient. So when you are gaining access to an institution of higher education because somebody before you went there, that's okay. But the person who's coming from a family who's never had anyone in their family attend a university is getting some additional support in order for them to be able to attend. That's somehow a problem.

Speaker 2: 21:05

We need to really, like, sit back and look at this stuff and look at the facts and look at what is out there and compare and see, because some of this stuff is just, it's clearly I I don't even want to my boss would be like you did this but I want to say what I feel. So sorry, boss, if you're watching, look. All I'm trying to say is come on, lil, bring it. Equity is important. Yes, we need to have these conversations, as hard as it is, and maybe, look. Maybe at some point in my life too, I felt like there's other things that we should look about, look and see. But it was. I had friends that, like, didn't just judge me and they would educate me.

Speaker 2: 21:53

I'm not perfect, I wasn't born perfect, knowing everything right. But if you are, maybe and I try to give the benefit of the doubt sometimes you know, but if you don't know enough about something, why not listen and educate and hear the other person's side and don't be opposed to learning like, it's okay if you're not right, like, let let that go, that part, that part, let it let it go. And being right, yes, you don't have to be right, it's okay to be wrong, it's okay to learn. It's okay to realize that maybe some of the things that you did was not okay. As long as you see that and continue going forward and realizing that and you learn, and you now see, I think that is great. And I'm sitting here myself saying that I was not perfect, you know, and I and a lot of people.

Speaker 2: 22:51

None of us are Exactly, and that is okay. Yes.

Speaker 1: 22:55

Yes.

Speaker 2: 22:57

Oh man, I want to have such a crazier discussion. I really really do Like. My face is like hot and red. Oh my God, please, boss, I love you.

Speaker 1: 23:05

But it's across all identities. So race is one of the important things, but it's across all different kinds of marginalized identities. Right, like, our society is obsessed with weight, right, and what beauty standards are and things like that. Why, right Like, why is there an assumption that a smaller body is a healthier body? That's not true. There's so much research and evidence to support that notion, yet, and still we're inundated with data saying something different, particularly for women and not as much for men.

Speaker 2: 23:44

It's okay to age.

Speaker 1: 23:45

It's okay to have wrinkles, it's okay to age and have wrinkles and you look regal with your gray hair right, you look like a gentleman, sophisticated, whatever, but women are supposed to be timeless.

Speaker 2: 23:57

Right, it's not fair. How can we ever live up to that? But where did that come?

Speaker 1: 24:02

from Right. Honestly, I have no idea Investigating that, helping people to investigate these notions that they're carrying around with them, that are impacting. I'm not hiring you because you didn't wear lipstick today and we have a position that is outward facing, and so the fact that you're not wearing full face means that you're not that committed to doing this work. Right, please Like. Where do these mindsets come from? Somewhere, from somewhere, from everywhere. That's it. It's somewhere and everywhere Movies, television, billboards, advertisement, instagram, instagram, all over. Yeah, and so how do you then begin to disrupt those things? Because the status quo is easy.

Speaker 2: 24:46

It is. It's hard, like you got to put in work, and sometimes it is hard and I find myself falling into those beauty standards. Not going to lie sometimes, like, sometimes I'm just like I want to be skinny, but like, why do I want to be skinny? Why am I not okay the way I am? I'm not going to like, lie, like sometimes that does like plague my mind, you know, and it's just, it's insan, it's insanity, not insan, I just made that word up. It's insan, y'all Insanity. But anyway, like and I want to talk about your consultants Like I love the variety of people that you have. I think I saw like a Latina there, a Mayan or something Maybe I got the last name wrong, I don't know. But it's all walks of life, it's not just oh, this is a fight for just one person or just one demographic. No, it's an everybody thing.

Speaker 1: 25:30

It's an everybody thing. So I work with a group of consultants that have different kind of expertise education expertise, social emotional learning, clinical therapy, research and analysis expertise but everyone's coming from a lens of cultural responsiveness, cultural sustainability, equity, justice, inclusion, right and so, depending on what the need is, we pull together a team of collaborators that will extend to meet that need. And so Tyranny is a clinical therapist and she also worked in higher ed, and so the way in which she approaches the work is rooted in her expertise and experience, and there's all kinds of psychology behind how she's engaging with people, right? Camila is a education leader, and so she has an anti-racist approach to social emotional learning that she is advancing. And she's been an executive director and she's worked with boards, and so when we're in that space, powerful, powerful women.

Speaker 1: 26:45

And Daniela is on her way, she is in graduate school now. She is a researcher, she focuses on quantitative research, and my girl can put together a visual representation of complex data sets in like it's just magic, and so she's able to support communicating when we're looking at, like, all the school data, creating something that a school can actually use to shift what's happening in the community, to tell a story and make an impact. So Elaine's my dissemination guru. April was a leader in a state department of education and an early learning expert, and so those are just the people I work with most often, and then we just keep spreading the love as much as possible.

Speaker 2: 27:34

I love it, no, I love it. Oh my gosh, this is awesome and I love that it's like all women you know. I'm sure men could be in there too.

Speaker 1: 27:42

My men collaborators are with different entities. So like I am partnering right now with the National School Climate Center and will be co-facilitating a 12-week course on school climate leadership for our leadership certification, and so Christian is over there and he is like so deep in school climate research land, you know like it is astonishing and amazing, you know. And Adam is the other partner over there. They're the co-executive directors and he is like a community guy, you know. He does development communications and he knows and anti-racism work and he knows how to make connections, yeah, yeah, so the group that I get to work with they're pretty pretty, dope, pretty dang awesome.

Speaker 2: 28:31

I love it. No, and I can see why this could be so intimidating to someone because you guys like, got your shit together, you know, like, and you, you sound like so smart, like I wish I could sound like that. Like I, I know that I can be smart, but the way I articulate my words I'm like girl, you need something. But this is no, I love it. Like just hearing you talk, I'm just like, oh, I wish I could sound like that. So I can see why that would also be like intimidating Cause it's just like no, so I love it, I love it. No, no, I love it.

Speaker 1: 29:03

But we're just here to be better. That's like you know, changing hearts and minds. Be better humans. That's it. That's like my whole mission is to help people be better humans and live that way. Yes, you know, like I am not perfect, I can take constructive feedback. It's not always easy to take the feedback, just like it's not easy for anybody else. But it's very important to me that I am walking the talk, that you don't see me in a session and I'm talking about how we should be connecting to people and how we shouldn't be assuming things about people and things like that. And then you see me out on the street cussing somebody out. Right, I really try to live what I am teaching and that was why I had to leave some of the places where I worked right, because we were telling people what they should be doing, but we weren't doing it with each other.

Speaker 2: 30:02

Oh no, you know what I mean, yeah.

Speaker 1: 30:04

But yeah, I really do try to just align my values with my work, and to me that's your purpose.

Speaker 2: 30:11

Yes, absolutely, and I know you have a podcast. Can you talk to me about that? Tell me the name, let's put it out there.

Speaker 1: 30:19

Yeah, so I do a podcast with one of my besties named Laura Kastner and it's called Pushing Past Polite, okay, and I have two little people, little tiny humans. One is three and one is four and a half. Oh, you got baby babies. Babies, yes, and they're pandemic babies, and so one born in 2020, one born in 2021. And so one born in 2020, one born in 2021. And so Laura and I used to work together, but I was on mat leave when she started and we just kept hearing about each other. Right, it's like, oh, when you get back, you're going to love working with this person. Oh, she's going to come back, you're going?

Speaker 1: 30:56

to love working together, blah, blah blah. They were all telling the truth. And so we started this podcast because we're the same age we're born in 1982. And we're both moms, we both work and we're kind of in like slightly different places in our journey, and so we just talk about the things that matter to us and ways that we try to make the world more just, just in our everyday lives. And so, yeah, like sometimes we're talking about things that are heavy, and sometimes we're talking about things that are not as heavy in terms of like a social context, but are heavy in terms of like an individual context right, mental load for parents, the default parent, and things that we can do. Like now Laura has a whole business that is a life wife business, because this idea of mental load is something that she wanted to help people with. Yeah, and so she's like well, I'm really organized and I'm a planner, and so she has a business.

Speaker 2: 31:54

I love it that helps with that.

Speaker 1: 31:55

No, yeah, absolutely, and so you'll see kind of the intersection of, like, my consulting and her consulting showing up in our podcast, in our conversations.

Speaker 2: 32:03

Yeah, that is great, great. And then once again, what is it called and where can people find it and listen to it?

Speaker 1: 32:07

pushing past polite and it's anywhere that you listen to podcasts spotify, apple, all the places so please follow us listen. Um, yeah, we try to just talk about what matters and make the world know that's great Thanks for sharing that.

Speaker 2: 32:24

Thanks for asking. Of course I was like I'm definitely going to start.

Speaker 1: 32:28

I always like.

Speaker 2: 32:28

To read a little bit about who's coming in and make sure, like sometimes they'll forget to say it. I'm like, let me say it, I'll say it, I'll plug it in. I'll plug it in for them. Where do you see yourself in the next five years, like as a person and with your business?

Speaker 1: 32:41

Ooh, okay, that's a great question.

Speaker 1: 32:45

As a person, I see myself doing more.

Speaker 1: 32:52

I'm on the school board at my kid's school, yeah, and doing more on the board, like that is my opportunity to do my work in a place that is going to directly influence the educational experience of my humans, my kids.

Speaker 1: 33:09

I also am hopeful that in five years, I'll just have a team that is consistently mine yeah, you know, not a team of consultants, but a team of people that are just educators, staff and that we're able to just like, continue to spread our impact, like we have had the opportunity to work with people all over the world at this point, and I think that the place that we are in as a global society, it's essential to be having these conversations and doing this work, because it's not just about talking. It's about doing the work on yourself and within your organization to change how we are being with one another Right and being with ourselves, and so I'm hopeful that in five years, there will just be more of that. That Just Educators will have had its print on all kinds of organizations and the people who work there will feel the impact of the work that we've done with them.

Speaker 2: 34:21

Yeah, and you'll see that progression and that impact that you did like going through and passing it on.

Speaker 1: 34:26

Yes, I love that.

Speaker 2: 34:28

I'm rooting for you. I'm hoping that the work that you're doing, you're laying all the groundwork right now, and then we're gonna see, like the fruits of your labor, the fruits, yeah, yeah, that's my hope. I love it. I'm rooting for you, thank you. Yeah, of course, I literally could talk to you forever. I don't want to end it, but and I've got a time crunch here but do you have any parting words, maybe a mantra or a saying that speaks to you a lot that you would like to share with our listeners as inspiration? Ask.

Speaker 1: 35:01

Don't assume. We all know what happens when we assume right. And so ask, don't what people need, how things landed on people, and be willing to just change. Ask yourself, why is this information so hard for me to receive? Right, if I am communicating to people that I'm an ally, then when a person of a marginalized identity tells me how that allyship needs to look and feel for them, I should be willing to accept that and not reorient the conversation to be about me. Yes, right, so asking, listening deeply for understanding and not to respond. Yes, you don't always have to respond.

Speaker 1: 35:52

And apologizing when you cause harm, fix it. Yes, apologize and begin the repair, because you know people are just out here sharing their pain and never kind of helping each other recover from that generosity. Yes, and so apologizing even to your kids, even to kids, to children. You know like we're not perfect as adults we're not. We are humans and we make mistakes.

Speaker 1: 36:33

And like I was stressed yesterday and got frustrated with my four-year-old, got frustrated with my four-year-old and before I knew it, I'm yelling. And then I'm like listening to myself and I'm like wait a minute, he's four, reel it in, sister. Yes, you know. And then I apologized to him and I gave him a hug and I told him that I'm so sorry that mommy lost her patience and that what he's feeling in terms of being upset is totally valid, because if someone was yelling at me, I would be feeling upset too, and I'm really sorry, you know.

Speaker 1: 37:10

But that also helps us to create more healthy humans, right? If we, as adults, are showing our children what vulnerability looks like, how to recover from harm, then they're going to be able to do that more easily, and then we'll be creating a society of people who are able to do that, because they have emotional maturity, yes, and they're not suppressing everything. Also, the last thing is your feelings are there to tell you something, right, but your responsibility is to manage them. Right. You are especially adults. Kids, children they're still working on that. Their brain hasn't developed. Yep, adults, your feelings are there to tell you something. Take note of what they're telling you, but then regulate yourself in a way that you can respond and not react.

Speaker 2: 38:01

Yes, absolutely Powerful stuff here. Thank you so so much, kori, for being here and for having this conversation. Thank you for having me. It's been great Good. I'm glad it's been great for us too me at least. So thank you so much. I appreciate you being here.

Speaker 1: 38:19

I'm glad to have been able to participate. Thanks for having me, absolutely.