Speaker 1: 0:30

is they can do the types of obedience that they can perform for you. Some people are satisfied with just the basics. The basics are foundation. So teaching how to communicate appropriately to your dog, how to shape behaviors, how to reward, how to leash walk and leash walking is typically a huge issue for most people. A lot of dogs don't get walked because it's uncomfortable to walk them. So I show them how and our method of how we walk dogs and we work with having a dog by your side in public areas or we're walking through a community with a short but relaxed leash and we teach the dog to be neutral to the stimulus that are around. And so that's the foundation work.

Speaker 1: 1:14

Some people with the foundation work, they end up either taking class basic again to reinforce stuff, or they move on to the intermediate, the next level. And so the next level of training is we start to anchor those skills into a more, I would say, solid form of obedience, meaning that we teach sit, how to hold a sit, how to hold it down, in the basic, but then we work under distraction in the intermediate class and you're not directly with your dog, so you might be across the room and your dog's holding a sit, I'm bouncing a ball, so we work on those skills. And then the advanced class is a combination of reinforcing that even more. We'll have dogs in a sit or on place and I'll have a dog playing fetch in the middle of the room and those dogs don't break and they learn not to. And then we teach other tricks just fun things for the people to do.

Speaker 1: 2:18

I also do. I have an obstacle course, canine obstacle course, and that's on my property, and the people that are in the advanced class can participate in a once a month class that I have there, but they have to be in advance to do that in a group setting. But so I provide that and I'm a teacher. I'm a former teacher. I was a school teacher. I taught for 32 years.

Speaker 2: 2:39

Okay, so you've got that educational background.

Speaker 1: 2:41

Yes, I do, I love teaching, I love educating, and that's the premise of my business is to educate. There are some trainers that they just prefer working with the dogs, and that's totally fine, and then, but I like to educate people so that they know, they know exactly what to do, so or at least have an idea of what to do in terms of working with their dog. And then the third phase I do is born and trained, and that's where the dogs come to me.

Speaker 2: 3:12

So they stay.

Speaker 1: 3:13

They stay at my house, and it could be for a variety of reasons. It could be that there's a behavioral issue that I'm working with, and or there could be that people don't wanna do the classes and they just want their dog to learn obedience, and so there's pros and cons to all of this.

Speaker 1: 3:31

Like everything, yeah, just like everything. I think the group classes are probably the best because it becomes a workshop for the people that are there to learn how to manage your dog. And I teach my class as though I'm coaching a sport and each owner is my player. So I'm trying to make them proficient in being able to work with their dog. So, and a lot of people were you in the military? I said no, I was in the military, I was a school teacher.

Speaker 2: 4:00

So yeah, that vibe.

Speaker 1: 4:03

But yeah, those are the three phases, and then you had asked something else as a part of that question.

Speaker 2: 4:08

Yes, the name of your business. Now I don't even remember my question. Oh, and then, when I got started, yes, and when you got started, when I got started.

Speaker 1: 4:15

yes, so the name of my business is called Respect on Both Ends.

Speaker 2: 4:18

I love that.

Speaker 1: 4:19

And that it refers to the leash. Yes, so teaching your dog to be respectful of you. But also you have a responsibility to be respectful to your dog and you are the educator for your dog, so you're teaching your dog to be able to respond to you and every dog is different, just like people are different. So, knowing cause I have people oh, my other dog was always so good and this. Now I got this new dog and it's a different dog and a lot of times people just don't remember cause they'll have a dog that they've had for 12, 13 years and they remember the last part of having that dog and how good that dog was, but they forget when that dog was a puppy. That was probably the same way. That's totally you have now. So, but yeah, it's just teaching the name of that is just a matter of respect and being able to set boundaries with your dog, and some people have they struggle with being able to set boundaries with their dog.

Speaker 2: 5:20

I oftentimes do see that yeah yeah, it is.

Speaker 1: 5:24

And you, when you get exposed on that, it's like whoa, yeah, I'm not, why am I not setting boundaries here? But with my kids I set boundaries, but I'm new with my dog and then wonder why Wonder? Why? Right, and a lot of it has to do with us personally, so how we deal with relationships, and that's what you have. You have a relationship with your dog.

Speaker 2: 5:44

Yeah, and I feel like a lot of people oftentimes forget that they think it's just a pet. But you do need to have a relationship with your dog, you do need to set boundaries, you do need to let them know like, hey, this is not okay and it's just like, oh, it's a dog, it's okay they do that.

Speaker 1: 5:56

It's like you kind of want to let them know that you're the leader of that pack you know, absolutely, and particularly if you have multiple dogs, and we've had multiple dogs in the past. And so if you're struggling with those boundary settings and you have a lot of dogs, you're going to run into some issues there.

Speaker 2: 6:17

You only imagine.

Speaker 1: 6:19

Yeah, and then when I got started. Yes, so I I've always been interested. I don't know how far back you want me to go. What?

Speaker 2: 6:29

aspect of the story.

Speaker 1: 6:32

So as a kid I I've always had dogs, grew up with dogs and and I was kind of socially awkward myself. So in terms of you know, hanging out with people, I was more quiet. It's kind of like the feel that but you know I could, I could entertain myself well, but I, I love dogs, so I had a dog when I was, when I was younger. We started off with a German Shepherd and Actually I brought some pictures that I don't know if you want me to.

Speaker 2: 7:02

Yeah, and the name of this German Shepherd.

Speaker 1: 7:06

So this, this particular one that I had growing up he was more of a family dog and these pictures pictures aren't that great, I just kind of printed them off real quick. But um, so this is a. This is a picture of me. I think I'm like six years old. Get you a little jacket and I got hair. But this is a. This is actually a German Shepherd's just blurred.

Speaker 2: 7:24

Her name is hard to see, but her name was Gabby.

Speaker 1: 7:26

Gabby and so Grew up having her, but she was more like a family dog. And then, um, I got another dog and it was a, a lab mix. Her name was sheba. So you're gonna, you're gonna, crack up on this photo here.

Speaker 2: 7:40

I can't wait.

Speaker 1: 7:40

So, um, and I had her Up until the point I was in college. I got this dog in fourth grade and then she passed away. Oh, when I was in college. I hope I have printed the picture off. I did. Yeah, all right, you guys ready.

Speaker 2: 7:54

Yeah, show us.

Speaker 1: 7:54

All right, my afro, so her, her name was sheba sheba, and so she went with me everywhere. Uh, we lived, we lived out in Percival, virginia, and before it was, you know, it's built up as it is now um, there was a dirt road that led over to my grandmother's house and I would walk over to my grandmother's house with with this dog. Um, I didn't even need a leash, she stayed with me, you know, and I didn't have it was just a relationship that I had with her and, uh, that was fun and I used to watch these TV shows growing up and I think what, what got me interested was the shows that that I watched with lassie lassie, you know the uh, but it was uh, it was a show of lassie where there was a forest ranger that that had lassie, and then I can't remember, um, the whole premise, the whole premise of it. But he, he worked out in the woods and he always got to take his dog to work with him.

Speaker 2: 8:50

So, uh, yes, I saw your little list of movie, of dog movies, I was like where's old yellow? I don't see old yellow. Did you watch that movie?

Speaker 1: 8:58

I, I did, um, oh, yellow was, was sad, it was just like, just like a dog's purpose, um, and, and that, um, I'll get into that one later, that's but, but, um, but, yeah. So all these shows, and there was a, there was an old movie that was called the doberman gang, that they trained these dogs to to rob a bank, and I was so fascinated with the training. And then there was a show called run Joe run, that, uh, this guy was searching for his german shepherd and he had a jeep. So I said, when I grow up I'm gonna have a jeep and I'm gonna have a german shepherd.

Speaker 2: 9:28

So oh snap, pull up the receipt.

Speaker 1: 9:33

This is me in my, in my younger days as well. Oh my god, so jeep and german shepherd, you look so cool.

Speaker 2: 9:39

I mean, you look so cool right now, but like oh my gosh, the jeep, the german shepherd, yeah, okay.

Speaker 1: 9:44

So that's, that's the progression of the interest I got into and then I got Into a dog sport back in 2006 and then what was that sport? It's the original name of it.

Speaker 1: 9:57

Was schützen Right and then it's german protection dog. So, and it's a sport that does three phases protection, obedience and um tracking and I they used to practice this over at northern virginia community college and I would go by on saturdays because that's when they would would do it and I would watch a little bit. I thought me I'd like to get interested in this, didn't know how, and I finally got connected with some people and then I got a dog to participate in that sport. Uh, it takes a very high drive type of dog to be able to perform that. And then I did that.

Speaker 1: 10:33

For years I competed, I titled two dogs, one dog, I took the nationals and competed and so, um, but it's very intense, it's uh, everything is very precise and the everything that I learned there, and I learned a lot of things, good things and bad things. You know, you work with certain trainers and some of their concepts, you and they're going, yes, not what I want to do. And then some trainers, you, you see the completion of how they Uh communicate with their dog and their dog receives that, and so I last went to different things. So I learned quite a bit working there, uh, and then I wanted to start training on my own and um, so I got a just so that I could do the training. I went and got a certification online for that and I started working at um, the dog day afternoon in leesburg, and I started teaching classes for them. And then, um, I opened up my own business and was a contractor through them. So I worked with them for a while and then, when I retired from teaching uh, which was during covid I went full-time and I trained in a location in hamilton called the the doghouse. I rent space from them and so I teach my classes there, and so it's been.

Speaker 1: 11:47

So probably, I want to say 2015 is when I started my business, and so I'm just progressing and and um, hoping to Be able to do more things in the business. Um, I have a, an intern that uh works with me. She helps out as well, too. She's also a school teacher. Uh, I was a phys ed teacher. She is also a phys ed teacher. So, uh, but she she works out in the asses and but she'll assist from time to time with my classes training and all that.

Speaker 2: 12:17

Yeah, that's good, yeah to have like a partner, assistant, partner, assistant.

Speaker 1: 12:22

She's, she's, she's an intern, she's, she's still learning. Uh, she's better than she thinks she is. Aw, aw she she. Elise.

Speaker 2: 12:31

Elise.

Speaker 1: 12:32

So she is um In her O-time. I'll let her when she's ready to do stuff. So I don't want to push her. She's got to be ready when she's ready. But she knows how to work with dogs.

Speaker 2: 12:46

She's done a fantastic job with her dog, so yeah well, it's good to have someone that you can pass on some of the knowledge to and she can help you so good to have that.

Speaker 1: 12:54

Yes, really yes.

Speaker 2: 12:55

Intern partner you know, and then tell me a little bit about the dog training. What are typically clients coming in for? What are the issues Like? I know we talked about a little bit of the leash pulling. What about chewing? What are other issues that you see and like? How do you deal with those?

Speaker 1: 13:12

So majority of the private lessons I have is reactivity To one leash, to a stimulus. The stimulus could be people, it could be dogs, majority of time it's dogs, and a lot of it is how they're managing the leash and what they're allowing their dog to get away with. So I helped them through that process and everything has progression. So you can't go from getting a reactive dog to trying to test them right away with a stimulus that they're already reacting to. So I teach them how to first manage the leash and for some of them it feels like I know. They feel like, ah, we're starting it with this. This is not the problem. The leash walking and actually it is how you're managing the leash is actually the problem. And so then, once they see the progression, then what I enjoy is their faces. At the end of it it's like, oh my gosh, how did you do that this?

Speaker 1: 14:11

is my dog Right this is my dog and so, I would say, majority of the people. It's reactivity, and then I have dogs that have anxiety. So anxiety is probably my favorite behavioral thing to work with. So being able to help dogs through. I worked with a dog in a board and train situation that was kept with a bunch of other dogs in a basement and there was no human interaction. They were throwing food. So when the dog was rescued there was waste that they were walking in and they were just buying food. So the dog was rescued but was totally afraid of people, got along with other dogs because it lived with other dogs that were down there. So I worked with this dog for about four weeks and at the completion of it I was able to walk the dog in.

Speaker 1: 15:06

I don't know if you're familiar with First Friday and Leesburg, where they have on the weekend they have like, especially in the warm weather, they'll have bands that are playing. They open up all the stores late and people and people were coming out. So I walked this dog in the middle of First Friday and was able to have people walk up. I didn't let anybody talk to the dog but he was able to cope with that walk appropriately. Co-exist, co-exist. He developed a relationship with me where I could recall and he would come back to me. So those are things that I enjoy, and the anxiety. I've dealt with anxiety myself before, and so I recognize that there's a direct connection with how we as humans deal with anxiety and how dogs deal with it as well too, and so the typical thing that most people wanna do when dogs are stressing out is to wrap your arms around it yeah, and it's just human nature and we feel empathetic and we wanna do that, but that actually feeds the anxiety.

Speaker 1: 16:09

So we have to help that anxiety. It is what it is and we have to expose it to situations progressively. Again, we can't overload. We can't take a dog that's suffering with anxiety and go right to home deep and walk around. I have to just get you used to being comfortable on a leash, maybe walking down the street, and then we progressively do this on a daily basis. So anxiety is what I've worked with. I've worked with dogs with aggression. Gression is not fun, scary yeah no.

Speaker 2: 16:39

It's not, I can't imagine that People are like whoa, I love this. It's like whoa, you don't kinda. You know, you can't predict a dog sometimes, sometimes, right. It's kinda scary. So kudos to you for being able to find your method and help these dogs.

Speaker 1: 16:54

Yeah, it can be challenging. It can be frustration in terms of wanting results or the results that people want, because sometimes the dog is just not gonna be the way these people want or it does not fit with the lifestyle that you have as a family. So I got a dog that's aggressive it's a temperament issue and you got a bunch of kids. It just may not be the right fit for that particular family. So, being able to communicate that to people, some people can accept that, some people don't.

Speaker 1: 17:32

I've had a couple people. They didn't accept it until after their child got bit and then it was oh, you know. And so and I don't see everything, but I do have a pretty good read of the different things that your dog is presenting and how to deal or cope with that. So and there have been a couple situations where the dog that was showing aggressive with their particular owner, we were able to put the dog in environment. One dog went to the military to be a, a tracking dog for explosives oh my goodness. And then the other dog went to the police department down in Georgia and worked there. So the dog had potential. It just wasn't the right fit for that owner or family and then it turned out to excel in a different area. Wow, and so those were nice moments.

Speaker 2: 18:31

Yeah, I never stopped to think about like maybe, like I know people want their dogs to work out so bad and they love that dog, but sometimes it is the wrong environment that they're in and they need to go and serve out a different purpose with their type of personality. I'm sure that's tough for the owner, maybe because obviously they're coming to you because they wanna fix that problem, they wanna figure it out, and then you know I mean it's great for the dog but it's kind of heartbreaking a little bit too for the family, right?

Speaker 2: 18:57

When they have to know that information.

Speaker 1: 18:59

Right it is. And then other options are management of stuff. So we had five dogs. I'll show you one more picture.

Speaker 2: 19:07

Yeah, please do. I love these pictures. We will throw back.

Speaker 1: 19:09

So when we first moved out to Waterford and we're let me tell you how crazy people we are we had five dogs.

Speaker 2: 19:16

Okay, yeah, that's crazy. We had five dogs and a cat.

Speaker 1: 19:19

So, four German shepherds and none of the dogs mess with the cat. But we had four German shepherds and a golden retriever. And so these guys, you look at this picture, you say, oh, all these dogs are hanging out together and this is awesome. But this male and this male did not get along.

Speaker 2: 19:37

So is that why they're like?

Speaker 1: 19:38

that's why he is like this and so. But they did not. They were not going to be friends. They could learn to be neutral around me because I was a leader that would help them. If there were some issues I could communicate to stop with the reposturing or things like that. So they trusted me being there. I could even play ball with all of those dogs, and when I play fetch with my dogs each dog has their own ball, so nobody messes with anybody else's ball. So I could go out in a field and play ball with all those guys and they were totally fine.

Speaker 1: 20:13

If they were in the yard by themselves, then there was nobody there, there was no leader. There could be a tendency of some conflict between the two males. So we dealt with that for years and the one dog was my dog that I competed with in that sports schizo, and then the other dog belonged to my wife and she could not work with them individually she could work with. If Caesar wasn't there, she could handle the other four. Or Caesar basically got along on his own with the golden retriever and then a female shepherd, so he was good with that.

Speaker 1: 20:50

It was difficult years because we had to manage that Manage where we could have two dogs out and two dogs in, or three dogs, and we had to manage how we did that if they were just gonna hang out in their yard or if we had a sitter. Generally, if we had a sitter, I was gone away on a tournament with Caesar, so there was no issue with that.

Speaker 2: 21:12

What do you think was why these two particular ones didn't get along?

Speaker 1: 21:17

Personalities. The one dog his name was Ovi and we initially adopted him for my mother-in-law. He was too much and he was a very anxious, nervous dog and Caesar did not like that energy, so he would try to correct it, and so the two of them were. I mean, he never did. I have another picture I don't have with me, but they're in the living room and everybody's asleep. There are two dogs on the couch, caesar's on the floor, next to another dog. We had Collie and the golden retriever and the other two males were on the couch and I had just played ball with them and I come in and I was cooking in the kitchen and they were all laying down and nobody was bothering anybody. And if you look at that picture you go, wow, your dogs all get along. And it was like no, they didn't. So after that I was making a point about when you have a dog that doesn't quite fit your family.

Speaker 1: 22:07

After that, when Caesar had passed away, the amount of stress that had dissipated was enormous and we swore we would never do that again. We would never. We would always make sure that our dogs connect before bringing them in, because the other option would have been to get rid of one of them. We were already invested, so we dealt with the management of those dogs for a few years and it's just. It's not the way to live, and so those are generally, like I said, options. They weren't dangerous to humans, it was just to each other, and it was just. It was not good yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:43

And then tell me how you're getting your clients. Like, is it word of mouth? Are you marketing? How are you getting your clients?

Speaker 1: 22:48

So I have a lady that does my social media stuff, and so she. Her name is Ronalyn Wintz, so she has her own business. Maybe you guys want to highlight her.

Speaker 2: 23:04

We actually have a form that we're going to ask you, like who do you want to highlight? Oh, okay, yeah, keep that name. Yeah, ronalyn, and so she has this program?

Speaker 1: 23:10

that because prior to getting having Ronalyn work for me, I was dealing with phone calls and people would leave messages and texts. And people would leave messages and trying to keep track of messages Like if I didn't deal with it directly and say I'm going to come back to it, I was running behind and then I wasn't reaching out to somebody in a week. So we have a method. Now she has a program that's set up. We keep track of all my clients. They set up inquiry calls so they'll call, or go to my website set up a call so there's a specific time shows up on my calendar so I know I'm supposed to call this person at this time. I interact with them. We decide what flavor they want. Do they want board of train group classes or private lessons? And then I help them pick the right which one and then we set up an appointment and we go.

Speaker 1: 24:03

So that was a huge change for me to be able to do that. And so she sends out information for my classes reminders. She sends homework out to my students because my students have to do homework weekly, which is hilarious, cause I taught health and PE. I never gave homework out to my kids. Now, now you guys have to work on their skills, but yeah, they get homework. So she keeps track of that. We meet once a week to discuss things. She helps me with the promotion of best allowance that they have and so which you know, I couldn't have Achieve the last two years of best of loud and without her, and helped me out with that. So that was, that was, that was huge and but yeah, that would. That's, that's what helps me out in that process. That's awesome.

Speaker 2: 24:59

I'm glad you have her to help you then.

Speaker 1: 25:00

Yeah, and I have social media. I put the videos out. I prefer Instagram over tiktok, I just say, and so it's just. But I'd like to put out educational. Sometimes I put some funny, funny videos.

Speaker 1: 25:14

Good but but educational stuff. That's related to, again, hope, hoping I can reach out and Get someone to go. You know I made this guy knows what he's talking about, yeah and so. But yeah, again, my goal is education. I had a and still kind of a long-term goal, but you know it's. I've always been a late bloomer in terms of things that that I start to excel at, and I will be 60 this year and.

Speaker 1: 25:46

So it's like, yeah, still still be able to do stuff. But you know, I I was always been a big fan of Bill and I, the science guy, and I always thought it would be cool to have a Educational dog show set up, similar to that.

Speaker 2: 26:04

And we have a lot on okay.

Speaker 1: 26:07

And a little different than Caesar. Just covering. I don't want to say too much, might hear this okay we'll cut that. Yeah, I'm just looking for something. I mean that that was kind of a long-term goal of something to do, but you know still no.

Speaker 2: 26:24

Yeah, in the working. Yeah process and then tell me about your necklace here. Is that any significance there? A little paw, it's just a paw print for.

Speaker 1: 26:34

No, no, I like dogs and I'm not sure I think maybe my wife got this for me.

Speaker 2: 26:38

Okay, I didn't know if it was like a treasure. You know how people make, like those paws of the paw prints of their pets, oh, yeah, oh no, it's really small, small paw print.

Speaker 1: 26:46

It could be a puppy newborn. Yeah, it could have been right. Now it's just, it's just something that.

Speaker 2: 26:51

I have there I love it.

Speaker 1: 26:52

That's a good conversation.

Speaker 2: 26:54

It's hard to be like, oh no, I'm a dog trainer, like, oh, my dog is trouble me. And Then, what are some challenges that you've gone through in your business that you've overcome and learned anything from?

Speaker 1: 27:09

So again back to the administrative portion. It's when you know going full-time. Now the administrative portion, learning the ins and outs what I'm supposed to do. You know Anything from taxes to keeping up with my clients, to bookkeeping and all of that. That was my biggest challenge, the hands-on and training. I always felt natural with doing that. I learned From every single dog that I have. I've learned from every dog that that I've owned In situations that have come up. So and then already feeling comfortable Talking to groups of people you know the skill I learned as a school teacher. All of those things were good the Learning to listen and be an observer to what's what the dog is doing, to learn about them. So people will give me information.

Speaker 1: 28:07

I, this dog, has this, they have this. I think my dog was abused in situations because of this and that, and I go not necessarily so, if you like with with my dog here, who is socially nervous, fury. She, when she first greets people or tails or to her tail is tucked, and so if you didn't know her, you got. Why is this dog Coming from an abusive situation? There's, there's no abuse, that's just her nature, and so not every dog that tucks his tail means that the dog was abused physically. So learning to read and and get information from an animal they can't say I hurt this way or I'm scared of this, or I'm reacting to to this situation because of this particular reason, and so reading, that is that. That's a challenge, but it's a. It's a. It's a joyful challenge that I like To be able to do, but I would say administratively was probably the the hardest part, okay for me once I got going.

Speaker 2: 29:07

So hey, and then, just to wrap this up, is there any message you would like to share with our listeners, any potential clients or dog lovers who are Having some trouble with their own pops? What do you want them to know? Any anything of why they should come to you?

Speaker 1: 29:26

Be willing to, to know that you don't know. I think again when you, it's like when, if I'm buying a car, I Want a car that's going to function I'm not a mechanic. If I want a project and I'm a mechanic, that's great. A lot of people will get Projects that they adopt and that's great. But know that this is a project and it's going to require work and it's not that I'm going to love this dog back into society and make things better.

Speaker 1: 30:03

I have a dog that I know nothing about and I have to be able to guide this dog to be the best dog that I can have. And so having people making sure that the choice behind getting the dog that they're getting is an appropriate choice and not because I look at the picture on the TV and I go, oh my god, I just need to rescue the dog, that's all a great thing. But no, you have a responsibility not just to affectionately take care of that dog. I've got to train and guide that dog and that's where getting help from a trainer. So if you have a plan to be able to do that, I have people that with working dogs, they see, you know Belgian Malinois like I have, and they're like man, I want one of those dogs. They're so cool.

Speaker 1: 30:55

Well, they don't come trained to you unless you're paying for it and if you're not used to a high energy, pushy dog and you have no reference of ever working with a dog like that. You've got to do your research and you've got to seek help. So, trainers, you know whether you want to come to me or not. Seek a qualified trainer that you can work with, preferably me, but someone that's going to teach you how to communicate appropriately, how to shape behaviors, how to give you recommendations, and sometimes a lot of it. Just getting the information before you get that dog helps out with picking a particular dog. When I picked her half brother, they have the same mother and he'll be three coming up in March or May.

Speaker 1: 31:45

And I saw the litter, the litter, of five males. One litter, one male was extremely dominant in the litter. He would be a great dog for that sport. I saw another male who was similar to her kind of nervous, spun a lot. I said I have one of those, I don't need another one. And then I saw two males. The male that I picked, the dominant dog, corrected him in this video and he received correction. But he did not tolerate overcorrection. So when the dog kept going he was able to stand up for himself and I said that's the type of dog. So the two middle dogs were similar to that. And then when I went out to see them he would not stop following me.

Speaker 2: 32:31

So my wife said that's the one you're going to get Exactly, and so I love how you knew that intuition too, like following your gut, like that's the one.

Speaker 1: 32:37

Yeah, so, but being able to see, I had skill enough to be able to see what I wanted and the education behind that. So I would just stress to people to make appropriate choices, listen to your heart, but you got to listen to your head too. Is this the right dog? And then get professional help to help take you through.

Speaker 2: 33:03

So thank you so much for coming in Thanks for having me.