Speaker 1: 0:31

It's nice when you have a business and you can start supporting these different nonprofit organizations.

Speaker 2: 0:35

Yeah definitely that's something we always are trying to do too. We just launched our first big charity program where we're giving money back If you buy a project from us to the Lost Dog and Cat Rescue. Oh nice, it was kind of like an interesting it makes sense for your.

Speaker 2: 0:50

Yeah, it was like this weird strategic partnership that kind of just spawned out of nowhere. We got a lead to go and talk to the people at Lost Dog and Cat about the roof fishes that are having through a mutual friend, mutual contact. When we met with them we're like, hey, this is kind of like a really good partnership. We can help you, We'll give you all the discounts or whatever we can to make this so it's affordable because it's a nonprofit. But in turn, like yeah, we get all that great marketing. It's like the biggest struggle with running a business how do you market?

Speaker 1: 1:19

I know what you do, because you guys hooked it up for us at our house. But will you give the listeners an overview of what you do?

Speaker 2: 1:28

Yeah, we're a mixture remodeling firm. We do kind of everything from the ground up as it applies to the outside of your house. So roofing, siding, gutters, doors, windows, anything you can see from the outside of the house We've got the ability to either remodel it or repair it. We have started getting into a little bit of the interior. That's something that every exterior modeler has to at least have their hand in that cookie jar because, naturally, the opportunity yeah, we have got opportunities, which is everything in our industry secondary opportunities with a client, but, more importantly, if there's an insurance related claim or something, nine times out of ten I didn't think about that one.

Speaker 2: 2:07

Something's damaged on the interior too. So we've got those outfits too. In fact, that's another charitable program we're running too is working with a local church to do repairs at Dead no Profit. We're doing all interior there. So we're doing a lot of that stuff this year. But yeah, that's a little bit about us. We don't play favorites to any particular brand. Obviously there are some brands that we think are a better fit or better suited for certain clients, but that's our approach is to be really consultative. So it's not just, hey, we get a really great rebate from this program or we're offered special warranties for this program. It's meeting the client, figuring out what makes the most sense for what, the goal they're trying to achieve or what design look they're looking for. Or maybe it's just a unique situation where their house is and what would make their home more efficient, or whatever the case might be, I love that you did that with us.

Speaker 1: 2:58

I'm just making that one suggestion. I mean, obviously that product you guys like handled, but then the suggestion of the black trim it made such a big difference in the presentation of the house. It's funny.

Speaker 2: 3:12

I have to be so careful, like forcing people into it.

Speaker 2: 3:14

It's so funny. I've got a favorite siding and you can tell. Like, if you go to a lot of the projects that I've taken on for siding, you can totally see, like my imprint on it, because there's certain yeah, this is my style. It's funny my dad owned a landscaping company in this area for years in Reston and now I live in Reston. I run this business out of Reston and I drive around a lot and you can always see properties that he landscaped because he had his trademark, like Japanese Weeping, maple and black mulch. There's always something unique to every project he's touched and I think I'm starting to develop a lot of those tendencies too.

Speaker 2: 3:45

But to that point you got to be really careful. You don't want to be too suggestive like hey, these black gutters would look great, but all of a sudden some of these black gutters are like, hey, I hate this look, it's hideous. So you have to pay a really like a tight balancing act there with clients. Well, that's a good suggestion. Thank you, yeah, but funny on that note, like I have been really pushy with black gutters. I do think it looks very good and I've definitely been turned away by a couple of clients Like I love it. Thank you for the suggestion, but we're going to stick with it more. We're going to stick with it more. Yeah, a classical, look Like we traditional I'm kidding, that's right. Yeah, we want to modernize things, yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:18

So originally the roofing and exterior siting, like what's your, what's the founder story, like how did you?

Speaker 2: 4:25

get this started. Yeah, to me it's a pretty interesting story and it really dials all the way back to like when I first graduated high school when I found out you know my girlfriend at the time was pregnant. It took everything that my trajectory was supposed to be and kind of took it on a different course a different course rather, and for me it's all for the better Like I started it out in the military and I kind of got plucked to be an educator in military teaching, you know radiological and chemical, logical, warfare, defense and tactics to the military. But what I really developed there was like this ability to train and educate and teach. So I left there and became a contractor and as a defense contractor I was teaching classes all over the world. I traveled multiple different countries. I've hit every all 50 states teaching a variety of different classes. It was never one particular thing. I was kind of like a mercenary teacher where you gave me a class and an audience and I would just teach that material to that audience. And that's what I was really good at. That's kind of my skill was talking to people.

Speaker 2: 5:16

But I came to a point where, you know, covid hit and I was teaching pandemic influenza classes go figure over in Italy actually at the time when we found that the contract was ending, most of it because of this pandemic and the ability or inability to travel on this contract. So I immediately set out and started looking for jobs or things I could do locally that didn't require travel. So I found this company. I won't name them by name, but they brought me in just to let me try it out and honestly, I talked with the owner and we said let's come do an agreement where I had kind of learned from you about this industry and in turn I'll just be a great salesman for you and if everything works out, then great. And within a couple of months of you know, right, along with the owner, I eventually found myself as the sales manager for that company and I really learned the industry. But the funny thing behind it is is I'm not handy at all. So even though I can talk to you about everything that has to do with roofing or everything has to do with siding or maintenance or whatever the case is like, you would never actually want to see me doing any of these things. But because I'm an educator, because I'm a teacher, like, it, was really easy for me to learn all of these skills and then articulate them to the clients. That's why I say like we take a real consultative approach. But long story short, you know I got my start in the industry with this other company and I learned the ropes. You know, what I found was that this was one mousetrap. I thought I could do better.

Speaker 2: 6:32

I don't know, it's a cliche saying, but it's something where I would hear all these statements, like you know. One big one is that this industry is, 18 years running now, the most complained about consumer industry being like extra modelers or roofers, and to me that sounded like opportunity, not really like oh, this is a disgusting career for to get into. It's more like we could turn that around, you know. And there's opportunity there where people inherently don't trust exterior modelers. The same way they don't trust mechanics. And if you knew you could find a good mechanic that was always gonna be honest with you and give you a straightforward approach, educate you, yeah, and maybe, you know, minimize some of your cost, but also give you very realistic expectations, like that would be an award-winning mechanic shop. And that's kind of what we sought out to be. It was.

Speaker 2: 7:16

You know, I knew I could create a company with my partner, alex, where we made quality like our top focus. It wasn't about making money you know we don't get rich off of any one job but all of our clients leave us feeling like, hey, they're a part of a family. Everyone gets, you know, a lab mug I think you got one. We're starting to handle laser pointers, yeah. Now wine coozies, yeah, so that's popular with everybody.

Speaker 2: 7:39

But yeah, we try to create like a family approach and, interestingly enough, even though marketing's been such a struggle for us you know marketing's a struggle for everyone I think We've managed to grow. You know we grow. We actually doubled in our second year and I think it's a result of the quality and the attention and focus we gave to our clients initially, where they've started to become like our main source of income. You know they're our main source of referrals. Despite all of the pay for services that you can get, you know those might generate one or two opportunities, but nothing generates more opportunities than a really happy client and that's kind of been our experience so far. Sorry, I talk a lot.

Speaker 1: 8:15

No, no, that's good cause. Then I can talk less. I can talk less.

Speaker 2: 8:18

And the only stuff on your toes.

Speaker 1: 8:19

No, no, it's good. What would you say in terms of like have you guys done anything to like ignite those client referrals? I know you guys do photos only cause I'm a client myself, like with the dogs. And is there anything else in terms of like follow up? Cause sometimes I find I ask this because, like you literally have to ask people like hey, we would absolutely love a review. Here's the link.

Speaker 2: 8:46

Like you're going to get one after this, so it's going to click here share the photos, like to help encourage that stuff to happen.

Speaker 2: 8:54

Yeah, obviously, reviews is a huge one for us, like we definitely, you know, hit our clients, particularly when they're expressing gratitude, you know, and that they're really happy with final product, whether it's the way it looks or the final price or the honesty or whatever it was. We always ask for, you know, review, because it's the best way for an approaching client or potential new client to really get a feel for what kind of service they're going to get from you. So we really, you know, harp on the reviews. But in terms of reaching out to old clients, like it's one of those things I think we've talked about a lot but never really done or done well where you kind of go back into your same you know, pool of clients and see if there's other projects that you've done and we've talked about it a lot but really being in, you know, going into, like our third year in business I think that will be one of our primary focuses is really trying to utilize, you know, what we have now, which is a database of people that agree with what we do and appreciate, you know the way that we go about doing it. But, yeah, nothing yet and we've tried everything.

Speaker 2: 9:50

I've tried putting together a magazine. You know, we partnered with the company to create like a house, you know, good housekeeping magazine that we sent out to all of our clients and potential new clients and we thought that was a good way to maybe keep us top of mind but also provide a value, you know, to our clients and that it gives tips on, like, how to maintain your house, like it's got a step-by-step guide, like here's when you should, you know, make sure your water bibs are closed off tight, or how to drain them, or how to winterize your home, all these different little tips. So we thought that was a really good strategy to, yeah, stay top of mind but also maybe introduce ourselves to new clients. But we found that we didn't get really a huge return on that. In fact, you know, we ended up getting some feedback from clients. It was like I would have liked it more if I had this, or I'd have liked it more if I had this kind of add in. Yeah, like I'm trying to give you something. Yeah, just accept it.

Speaker 1: 10:39

I will say, though, stuff like that is a long game, like because you said you've been missed for three years, like you got to put that stuff out for three years, which gets so expensive to keep up.

Speaker 1: 10:50

I think that's the biggest struggle with marketing. It's like, as somebody who is passionate about marketing at something, I always educate all my clients on the front end to say like, hey, if you can't keep this up for at least six months, don't even bother doing it, because you're going to be disappointed and you're going to lose money. Now if you're in it for like 18 months, you're going to see some crazy but returns. But if it's like three months, you're going to be disappointed and you're going to hate me.

Speaker 2: 11:16

Yeah, that's really difficult for us Because we kind of do want to see a return relatively quickly, especially because the investments are high. You know they're not small investments. You know some marketing efforts we've taken we're in the neighborhood of $25,000, so we maybe got one true opportunity as a result of investing in that path. So it's really difficult and to that point, yeah, we do maybe set unrealistic expectations. I'm not sure exactly what the expectations should be. You know, when you set out money and you say you know this is our marketing strategy for this quarter, or maybe for this half of the year, or maybe even for the full year, you have an expectation of return and a lot of times it's this promise to you too. Right, like the magazine you know is a good example where you know, when I first set out to partner with this company and create these magazines, they sell this glamorous story about clients, you know, keeping it on their coffee table during a major holiday event and saying it's going to be there and you'll be talking to mine, not just to the homeowners, but is a tangible item. That, yeah, and you'll start getting calls for this right away. So, yeah, I mean I think there's a degree of patience.

Speaker 2: 12:17

That has to happen, but oddly enough, I think in any industry and I don't obviously it doesn't apply to everything but when you're starting a new business, that you do, just hit a point where you become brand recognizable and you just start getting business as a result of just having been around and been in a known commodity, and that's also something that's hard to crack into an industry. There's over 1700 roofers, you know, licensed roofers in Virginia alone that are bidding on all of these little bits of business. So you have to somehow surface to the top of those 1700. And then, when you get to that top, when you get to the cream now you're talking about people with major marketing budgets like I don't know if I should name anybody by name, but nobody, nobody, nobody. But some people have massive budgets. You've seen them on TV, you know. You've seen people co-hosting or branded on the news channel. You know, as your news ticker's going along, the Bob say also think about this roofing company.

Speaker 1: 13:09

And that's where that's what I'm saying. People pay the big bucks, like for that name recognition. And then people like us who are like okay, maybe my budget is like $50,000 this year, it's like they probably paid $50,000 for that.

Speaker 2: 13:25

Radio spot.

Speaker 1: 13:26

Yeah, that campaign that campaign and it's like we don't quite. But that's where you come from, an education background. That's why the professionals that you're working with they should be educating you, setting those realistic expectations. Like when you guys came out you told us like this is how long the project's gonna take this is what you can expect.

Speaker 1: 13:45

This is, you know, like you kind of ran through all of it with us, versus like if you would have came out and said like it'll be done in two hours, right, yeah. And then it was like all day, even though all day is like amazing turnaround. But if I was expecting two hours to re-roof a roof, like ours. I would have been disappointed.

Speaker 2: 14:04

Yeah, no, it makes perfect sense. I think, too, when you're early in the in your early in the phase of starting a company, you're just kind of trying everything and you're just seeing does anything even have Merit? Yeah, even like the smallest amount would excite you. Like can't tell you how many, I mean we went and bought like a special tent to set up for you know events, just so we can start getting our brand out there at like things like the farmers market we've attended and we sponsored and I talked about earlier, about like the five Ks that we're trying to be present at and have giveaways and little things like that, just trying to grow like a base, anything that would show even like a morsel of return. We would get overly excited about Like things like doing the farmers market. You know he handed out gift cards $5 gift cards in exchange for like just like me and follow me on Instagram something as small as that, and I was, I was over the moon, I was elated when I had 70 new followers up into that. So, yeah, holy smokes, you really did it, you're making it, but yeah, it's kind of like what I said before A lot of it, I truly believe, and this is what actually another roofing contractor told me and they're believe it or not, even though it's cutthroat, like when he gets down to the bid on bid level.

Speaker 2: 15:09

There are opportunities where I meet with other owners and we'll talk over, like at a golf course or some event like that, and they'll give really good feedback, like one company that's really struck it well and they I definitely won't mention them by name because I've viewed them as a competitor in the sense that they do good, good quality work.

Speaker 2: 15:25

I mean, they've done a really good job branding that, marketing it. But they told us it's a waiting game, that it's not just boom. You put yourself out there and everyone just seems to know inherently that you are A trustworthy but B that you do good quality work and that you're affordable, like those things aren't just inherently known right out of the gate. But eventually the word does get around and they told us, if you just hang on and you don't give up, there will come a point in time where your phone starts ringing. It's people you don't know, it's somebody that you didn't, you didn't initiate a conversation with on social media, because they said oh, my roof leaks. Does anyone know a good roof? Or it's not always necessarily stemming from an interaction like that, where now it's just I typed in that I needed a roof. Your company comes up and they do their own research and find it.

Speaker 1: 16:06

Can I add something to that?

Speaker 2: 16:07

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 16:07

So I 100% agree with that, but I think that and they might have said this part and you might have just skimmed over it there's a piece that's missing on that equation, though, is if, yes, it's a waiting game, it does take time, but as you're waiting, like what are your outputs? What are you putting out there?

Speaker 2: 16:25

You are a natural educator.

Speaker 1: 16:28

That's what you did for the government, right. Like you were always out there sharing that knowledge, you're able to deliver messages in a way that's easily understood. You're going. You know where I'm going, as you are waiting for that big blowup moment of the calls coming in without having to necessarily pay for those specific ads or for that, that because they're they start educating. Like right now, your iPhone, you could put it up on a stand. You have a new roofing tile or a new piece of something coming in and literally talk about it for 20, 30 minutes.

Speaker 1: 17:04

You might be like who the heck wants to watch?

Speaker 2: 17:07

this they are people out there that do care.

Speaker 1: 17:11

They are people out there that are googling that specific product and then sure they figure out the differences. You know having through it for products and talking about the pros and cons of each one. Go to chat GPT and like have you played with chat?

Speaker 2: 17:24

Yes, I have Okay.

Speaker 1: 17:24

Yes, and say like what are the top 50 questions that people ask when it comes to replacing their roof in Loudoun County, virginia? You're going to get or Northern Virginia, you're going to get the questions that if you just answer those questions, create a video like bullet. And then you can even say give me three bullet proof or three bullet items for each video topic. That way it'll kind of get your brain like working towards that.

Speaker 1: 17:48

Yeah, towards that video. And then just put it the thing have some like little props, and then put it and then say, okay, we're the next six months, 12 months post the videos yeah.

Speaker 2: 17:59

Yeah, we did a good job early on, I think, capturing some of those style of videos. I'm not sure we did a great job like continuing that front, because it did feel it was just again another one of those things where you're brand new in business so you're wearing so many different hats, you know not just trying to make sure that you're getting great deals on supplies. You're acquiring clients, you're continually marketing so that the next quarter you have clients to keep paying the bills that you're accruing right now. Yeah, so we did do some of that and it's a good point. We should definitely look at that again, gotcha.

Speaker 1: 18:31

Back to. I do that with this podcast. I get to highlight so many different business owners. We do five a day, two days a week. We've got this set up. You know it's a win-win for the business owners that we invite in. It's a win-win for Elamon Studio because we're highlighting people.

Speaker 2: 18:50

It's efficient too.

Speaker 1: 18:51

It's efficient, exactly so, and I'm not sitting around like praying for business to come in, like I'm pro actively sure moving towards it, and you're an educator. Right you know, like my back.

Speaker 2: 19:05

Yeah, yeah, it should be. Yeah, it should be easy to do. Yeah, it's a really great point. And yeah, I'm always looking for other things to do in ways to I Just always want to be doing something towards growth like that's.

Speaker 2: 19:17

That's always been my biggest fear is you grow stagnant because Something you're doing is working and you just keep riding that exact same bike and you never upgrade the brakes or the wheels or whatever it is To keep going faster. So it's always like an evolution. You're always constantly trying to look for what's the next thing that I'm not doing or what am I not thinking about. And that's another one thing about like being a part of, like a network. Like when I first started on I know I, amelie, reach out to you I'm like I want to be at least tangentially near this network of people that are all making decisions or recommending people or just good people that want to see other people succeed. So that was a big effort early on was just saying who can we, who can we get in front of? You know, that would Appreciate what efforts we're trying to make and that would help, kind of encourage it.

Speaker 1: 20:01

Yes.

Speaker 2: 20:02

Well and echo some of the things we're saying. You know, it's um. It's amazing to me, particularly on social media, and I would say I'm not a social media guy. Thank.

Speaker 1: 20:11

God.

Speaker 2: 20:14

Yeah, I don't. Yeah, I do have an Instagram but, little secret, I don't actually run it. Emily does. Emily actually runs that for me. She's really.

Speaker 2: 20:24

I'm very grateful to have someone in my life that can do that and understands that process. But regardless, I am shocked to hear how many people are looking for Recommendations, like for services, on those kind of platforms, like I never would have thought. In fact, when I first started in this business, it was my understanding you had to buy every lead, like you just had to fork out the money and in turn, you'd get an opportunity. And One out of every three is gonna be making a purchase of some sort, whether it's with you or it's with somebody. But that was my mindset. It was a Cash for play sort of system.

Speaker 2: 20:58

So when I got into doing this on my own, I realized we initially I started that exact same method. I was gonna go right in line with the way I'd seen it done before. We were paying thousands of dollars for opportunities and these opportunities weren't good. But Finally I realized, like social media is enough, is this massive pull of opportunity or people are looking for recommendations? They believe if Aliyah went online today and said I use lab roofing the lab exteriors. Use it correct term Use lab exteriors. And they did xyz and they did such a great job. Like the reciprocal effect of that is huge. And yeah, I'm just shocked. You can get online right now on Facebook and look at any one of the different community groups in this area and somebody's asking Do they know a refer or do they know someone in this industry?

Speaker 1: 21:42

So that's like to me, that's the next big you know so that's actually a good point is get together with our, pull together like four or five you know clients and then Literally have like a group text String, whether it's on Facebook or wherever it is that you wanted to message, and then, if Emily can, if she's like you're supposed to Meet a person, just like literally keep an eye on anytime. Anybody asked for it, like hey, who's a?

Speaker 1: 22:11

grouping because it's like, yeah, when you get like four or five people go and be like this is a person, this is a person, this is the person, even if it's not that specific person asking question Everybody else who watches that is like oh they'll see highly recommended. Let me go and check them out.

Speaker 2: 22:24

Yeah, we've got a pretty good following in them. Stone Springs, it's a. Our south riding area tends to be that if somebody asks about a roof, we're right there with like these two other you know companies to get mentioned quite often. So I think we've done a good job, somehow like footprinting that area. Ashburn is where I grew up like, so Ashburn's an area that I really would like to. I Would like to be like the roofer of choice for an area like that again, not just because I grew up there, but we've also done a good deal of work there.

Speaker 2: 22:50

Like, um, one of the first big projects we ever were awarded was a commercial project redoing the Ashburn Commons Plaza. In fact, part of the reason Alex isn't here today Is he's going up to Calgary to do a tour of the fast plank products just a product's manufacturing system so he's actually going to see kind of firsthand how the material is made. But we put that material on the Ashburn Commons Plaza. So literally if you live in Ashburn, you're going to be walking past work that we've done at some point within probably within your week. So that's an area we really hope to become like our next South Riding, where when somebody asks for you know, recommendation that where our name is getting mentioned a handful of times by clients that aren't just making it up either, like that's another thing that's really prevalent in our industry.

Speaker 2: 23:34

I saw that early on, in fact, making up referral or making up reviews of their own, or like family referring, you know, their own companies in like that was in fact when I first set out to work with one company that sells leads. That was one of their recommendations. They said get your brother's, sisters, aunts, uncles, friends, anybody that cares about you you know that you're starting a company and have them go and write a review for you. But we were pretty adamant not to do that. But it's funny, you see it everywhere. Like I know a lot of other roofing contractors or exterior modelers in general and you can see you know their family Also. You know what.

Speaker 1: 24:11

I'm going to get pushed back on that. I don't think it's a bad idea if you're being honest in your review. I don't go around and tell people to do this. By the way.

Speaker 2: 24:17

That's the question, yeah.

Speaker 1: 24:19

But like if I'm saying this person like is a upstanding citizen, they volunteer here. You know I would trust them with anything. I think that's speaking to somebody's character.

Speaker 2: 24:30

Character sure.

Speaker 1: 24:31

Not saying, oh, their company is the best and I've worked with them and they did a great job at that. Like, as long as you're honestly giving the review, I don't think that's a problem, only because I know how strong having Google reviews are for somebody's business.

Speaker 2: 24:45

So if you're brand new and you have like three clients, yeah, I think you're right, like if it's a character review, that's a whole different story than fabricating.

Speaker 1: 24:52

Making up a review.

Speaker 2: 24:54

Yeah, an experience that happened and in fact I know like. I'll give a funny example and you can determine whether you want to keep this in the podcast or not. Emily's mom is one of my biggest like advocates and supporters.

Speaker 1: 25:04

I'm gonna say she's like everyone's advocate.

Speaker 2: 25:06

Yeah, she recommends me more than anybody, More than Emily does, More than any of my kids, Fire, Fire my family. Her mom is always, you know, out there advocating for live exteriors. But, truth be told, one of the first projects we did is we sat out and did her roof. So I told her I think you're gonna recommend us. You know, we, we need a real. You have to, yeah, you have to speak from, yeah, you have to speak from some degree of experience, because I definitely don't want to be that company is who's having fabricated stories be told. Oh my gosh, they put gold on my roof and they were so fantastic.

Speaker 2: 25:36

We sat in at Laltes together, or whatever. You know crazy. That's not the experience you got. No, in fact, I think your husband treated us to some beers or something. Keep that out of the podcast. We were trying to work that day, yeah, so you know I do love that.

Speaker 2: 25:54

You know we're really proud that in the first two years of business that we've been around, we're nearing 30 reviews. I think we might have just hit 30 reviews on Google, which is pretty amazing. All five star reviews and these are all legitimate candidate. You know reviews from clients that you know they seem like they would run through a wall for us in order to see us succeed. In fact, early on, we had a couple of clients asking if they could buy equity in the company, because they were. They were so amazed by the experience that they got that they were sure that this was going to be something that was going to see immense success. As long as we could continue to duplicate, you know what it was we were doing, but we're really proud of the amount of reviews we have there. We've got a lot of reviews on Facebook, on Yelp, and that's where, like the majority of our leads and opportunities are coming at now is all coming from people that literally found us as a result of reviews.

Speaker 1: 26:40

And those are the best because they're not having like, they're real, they're honest. Recommendation.

Speaker 2: 26:44

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:46

And you're not. You're not one of 10 companies that are probably going to be reaching out to these people.

Speaker 2: 26:50

When you're set in a dynamic where you're competing against 10 or nine other contractors, you almost have to put on like this salesy gimmicky hat and you know, or you play the opposite route, where you're like the antagonist, like I'm not going to be a salesman to you, I'm going to be more of an educator.

Speaker 2: 27:06

But as a result of that you have to you know A trust what I'm saying, but I'm also going to tell you that this is what these other guys are doing. You know, when they, when they set up to to meet with you and they take the salesy approach, they're a climb on your roof, not because they're getting up there to be great people, but because they want to create a sense of urgency for you, like your roof needs replaced tomorrow because I found this one, you know, broken shingle and naturally, waters getting in, and they create an urgency that way. So, as long as you know you're willing to have this candid, like very consultative, honest approach towards what are your goals you're trying to meet, then I won't play any of those games with you that I want. I was just trying to play where they're following a script and the end result of that script and that goal is to get you to say yes to purchasing a roof, and nine times out of 10 when they go through those types of scripts, the goal is not just to get you to buy, but to get you to buy something that is priced way beyond where it should be, based on what the market is offering. So it's yeah, it's really.

Speaker 2: 28:03

I don't like getting put in those positions where we're competing against nine other people because you can be your candid. You can't as easily be your candid true self. Yeah, and that's because, yeah, it's just like now, the, the, the pools diluted. In fact, that's not a good client for us. If someone says, hey, I'm not going to make a decision today, which is fine we don't expect anybody to make decisions day of but if their response is, we're not making a decision today, we're interviewing nine other people for this job, honestly, that's probably not an ideal client for us because I don't, you know, in my mind, they're not selecting us based on the things that make us great, the things that would qualify us to be the best solution for them. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1: 28:41

If that's right, jess, I would normally say yes, but I just got back from an Andy Elliott sales training. Have you heard of him?

Speaker 2: 28:48

Nope, it's new.

Speaker 1: 28:50

So they were literally going through different sales situations and that was one of them and he had like grouping guys, like big grouping companies in there and my mindset I'm a very stubborn person and that's usually my mindset. I'm like, listen, if they if we're not everyone and they're not choosing us because they want to like truly work with us, then forget about it.

Speaker 2: 29:12

I'm not going to say I'm going to talk you into working with me.

Speaker 1: 29:14

I want you to choose the best fit for you. But as I kind of think through it more, a lot of people are just asking questions and doing what they think they're supposed to be doing because their neighbor, joe, or their husband or their wife is like why don't you just do X, y and Z, right? So? So I'm starting to think and kind of talk as a team Like we really should be. They've reached out to us. It's because I need a new for us, bonus for you, right, right. For the most part, if it's if it's the roof.

Speaker 1: 29:50

They're not educated, more than likely, about what is it that they should be looking for. If they're like I need a better price. Are they hiring somebody that's hiring college kids or high school kids that are up on their roof, like you know, stapling things that could end up ruining their the structural integrity?

Speaker 2: 30:06

of integrity.

Speaker 1: 30:07

They don't know these things, and the person that ends up selling them that roof that's a little bit cheaper isn't going to tell them that on the phone.

Speaker 2: 30:14

That's true? Yeah, no, so there's, and we try to. It's funny, we actually get asked by a lot of our clients and I think it's again so much just due to our approach, or maybe it's just the way we come off Like they they believe you know what we're saying is real, and maybe it's because of the way we design our website or any number of things. But we get asked a lot Like how many people should we be interviewing for these jobs? And that's a really big question that we get asked a lot and we are very candid, like it's not, like I want to be the only one sitting in front of you, like in fact, I encourage three, maybe four interviews before you land on the right contractor. And of course that's up for debate. You know, anybody can tell you you should get 10 or 20 or I don't even know where the line ends, but in my opinion you should be able to sort out. You know, are you getting a fair pricing? But you know, when you get to four people, right, you can distinguish. Somebody's telling me it's 5,000, somebody's telling me it's 25,000. And these other guys are in like the 6,000, 7,000 range. Now you know at least where you should be from a price perspective. But beyond that, like three or four will give you an idea to like. Are they matching like your goals? Are they? Are they understanding exactly your goals or what it is you're trying to achieve? Do they offer the right products you know that are gonna be able to achieve the goal that you want to meet? Do they offer the right warranties, you know? Are the warranties even important to you? There's all these different questions to ask, but all of those things I think can be answered In a much smaller, you know, pull of people like I think three or four is the right answer. In fact, we we do blogs and stuff on our website. We call it our learning center. We talk a lot about that. Yeah, we have a good amount of them too, but yeah, we Part of the story behind lab to his lab is Len, alex brand, and we get asked that a lot too.

Speaker 2: 31:56

Don't put this in the video, but Len had a heart attack and that's the big reason why Len is actually part of the story today In terms of, like, an ownership perspective. But we brought Len, we kept him on the team, so Len actually spearheaded like creating our website and writing all those blogs. So Len is still, you know, ancillary part of what is lab exteriors, but he did an amazing job and I think it's a really big. It's a really big tool for us. To educate our clients is just right by going to our website and seeing you know. This is the stuff that we're telling you and we're backing it up by telling you the same thing when we meet with you in person, but also it's just a flood of good information on there that you can get that would help guide you.

Speaker 1: 32:36

So I like that. I would love to just kind of inject this piece and I'm sure you're to do this is. At first I was like, no, no, you don't have to interview three or four, that's like I'm glad. Actually we did, because we only had one person before you. And then, after we talked to you, we're like, oh, actually this is much better and we would have never gotten that if we would have went with the first person.

Speaker 1: 32:56

But then what I think would be also cool and say, okay, go in interview three or four, but here's five questions that you should be asking them, because here are the differences that you could be getting. You might be getting a cheaper price, but this is what. Some things to watch out for this is where they're cutting their costs.

Speaker 1: 33:12

Quality warranty the People that they've got on the job you know like, and then you can guide them. So then they're like, okay, let's have a thousand, oh, that's much cheaper. And then they're gonna start asking questions. By the way, who do you send out or tell me about the warranties, or my favorite clients are the ones that ask me for like what it?

Speaker 2: 33:28

Yeah, cuz they'll fully admit this is not my field of expertise. And they'll ask me like what are the things I should be asking? That's I mean. Those make up my ideal clients because they have a thirst for, like knowledge I want to know. And they also recognize, you know, their own area of weakness, you know, and that they recognize that it's a strength for for me, you know, and yeah, it's really nice when you can sit down the client and say, yeah, these are the basic expectations of, you know, a contractor that you're interviewing. Here's things that would make them, you know, exceed or go above what a standard level of quality would be. And here's, like, the outstanding things. And naturally, of course, I know that we only we we check all the boxes for the outstanding things now. But it also creates this new, this new level that everyone that comes beyond you has to, has to hit as well, which means that they they're being honest, they're not lying or trying to evade questions that you said are really important to know. But are they also achieving you know, to those exact same standards that I? You know that I educated the client on what they should Be asked for.

Speaker 2: 34:25

You brought up a good one thing, something as simple as are they stapling underlayments to your roof? Are they using male cap fasteners? And it seems like such a small, subtle detail and, without getting into like too much detail about like what an impact it really has, the main point is is that all the manufacturers require that in order to honor a warranty. So it could be a small shortcut and maybe not even have that big of a like a you know a recourse or result of it, but ultimately it's gonna avoid your warranty in the future. So, god forbid. You know you put on a manufacturer, you put on one shingle from a manufacturer and that shingle becomes Defuncture whatever, and they pull it off the shelves and now they have a ton of warranty claims. Your roof will no longer qualify.

Speaker 2: 35:07

You know, for a warranty claim. So these subtle details are important and it gets why it's so important to educate and that's what that, to me, is what sales is like. I've never. I've always been told I'm really good at sales, but I never really like viewed myself like a salesperson. I go back to like the same thing, like I'm an educator and People want to be educated and as long as I'm doing a good job educating, I'm also soliciting trust. I'm building like a rapport with this person and and if I'm speaking to all of these facts and I inherently will also be holding myself to those same standards and hold myself accountable to To fulfilling kind of everything that I'm saying, if that makes sense. So it's not. I don't ever feel like I'm selling. I always feel like I'm Advising, I'm paying the picture of what you're gonna get if you work with me.

Speaker 1: 35:54

You're, basically you're stepping in as their advisor, whether they work right or not. You're like that's it. I'm gonna look out for you. Here's for your best interest, whether you work with me or not, I'm gonna lay it all out for you. You make the decision, but I'll be here to help guide you along the way.

Speaker 2: 36:07

Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah, and that's kind of the approach I've taken with everything I've done. I mean, I used to be an insurance broker. I did the same thing then and it's the same thing with teaching classes for the military. You know, it's just so funny like one of the classes I used to teach in the military was called reducing preventable death in a mass casualty situation Like the worst name for a class ever and it's really really long.

Speaker 2: 36:28

But I'd be teaching these classes classful of people about how to do like Needle chest decompressions or how to apply tourniquets to prevent, you know, bleed out or whatever the case might be. And I'd have people come up to me after these classes be like, alright, you talked about doing those needle chest decompression, I've never had to do one. Can you like walk me through it again? You really sound like you know you're talking about and I have to admit To these people I faint at the sight of blood. That is a true fact about me. Choose, well, you don't keep that in the podcast or not. I've literally fainted as recently as this year with a small cut on my hand because I cannot stay on the side of blood. Hmm, but I could teach a class like that's just that. That is, that is my skill and it's really done well for me over the course of my life. So it's what I really don't like ever being like referred to as a great salesman, because I really think what it is. I'm just a really good educator and that's really. That really is all my true skill is, in fact.

Speaker 2: 37:15

Oh, my kids were younger. I used to make them get up in front of me every night and do like a five minute. They had to talk from beginning to end for five minutes. It could be on whatever topic they wanted, whether it was how their day went or something that they're passionate about for that time, whatever. They just had to talk for five minutes and they'd always him and ha about it and they were always annoyed by it. But I told them like I didn't like the way that my life trajectory went.

Speaker 2: 37:38

You know I didn't immediately go to college like I thought I was gonna go to. I wanted to go to college for music. Instead I ended up in the military. But what I found the one thing that has followed me through my entire career is my ability to speak well In front of an audience of people without like cowering down. I was like. So I feel like it's really important for me to teach that exact same skill to my kids. I used to make them do this every night. But I mean like, if my kids are all succeeding now, none of them shy in front of an audience. They don't feel nervous to get up and speak.

Speaker 1: 38:06

It's an organization called toastmasters. You basically had your own tip toast. Yeah, exactly, yeah, so much of my kids.

Speaker 2: 38:13

That's exactly right. I've always wanted to do that, but no, I haven't gotten around to it.

Speaker 1: 38:17

No, that's amazing that you're like a party man. I agree that communication is one of the most important skills that any human can have, like whether you're running a business or You're a stay-at-home mom and you're running a home business, having kids and trying to get them to do what you need to do. Just that art of communication is so important.

Speaker 2: 38:33

It's one skill, like I said, it's a string that goes through my entire career and it's just that ability to speak eloquently, like effectively, and have people understand what it is you're trying to say is such a skill that literally it's been, that's been my bread and butter. Like that is really the true skill I bring to the table and someone asks, like what it is I do? That is really what it is that I do better than I think you know other people in this field. And it's just the ability to articulate myself. It's really amazing how that, how that has followed me through. But like the biggest joke is like that me getting into the through the industry in the first place. And it's kind of like that same story I said about teaching and how to do needle chest decompression, return it gets when I could not ever do that if my life depended on it. Roofing is no different than that. It's just that I have a passion to be good, speak well about it. So I have taken the time to really understand and know what it means to do a roof. What are the subtle differences and the main manufacturers that are producing these materials? You know what separates one crew from another crew, what separates one company from another company. There's just so many like again, little subtle things, and I made it my. I made it my mission To identify what those things are, know them inside and out, be able to articulate that to a potential client, and that has been why I've been successful in this business. I think that's a real root of it, but I would tell it to anybody if that's the skill that you don't have, that's a skill you should start Acquiring because, yeah, because I did it with roofing, I did it with teaching, reducing preventable death. I did it with insurance you know, being an insurance broker for a number of years, it just followed me all the way through it.

Speaker 2: 40:02

Never once did I declare that I'm an expert in any one of these fields and I always tell clients because clients will say, oh, you did such a good job teaching me about how to do this. You know about the roof process and all this stuff. You're gonna be there, right? You're gonna be on the roof Like I will be there. Yeah, I would say I will be there because I do commit to my clients. Yeah, one of the reasons we say and we honor this commitment to having high quality control Is that Alex or myself go to every install. That is just God's honest truth. We never have to do that. We never just send a crew and have a crew do work. We go there and we, you know, we make sure that everything's held up to the same standard that we sold it to the client as.

Speaker 2: 40:37

But yes, if you want me at your install, I always tell people. If you see me on your roof, call 911. Yeah, like something has gone incredibly wrong. Yeah, here, the crew quit, somebody fell, I don't know. But if I'm on the roof doing an install, this is bad news and you don't want that to happen. What you do want is to see me out front talking with a crew foreman, hashing through, you know, issues or concerns or anything that can be happening on the day of an install. That's where you want me to be. Yeah, my background is in project management education, like I've said. So that's the spot for me, not on the roof swinging a hammer.

Speaker 1: 41:09

Yeah, no, that's funny.