Have you ever found yourself searching for answers to persistent pain that conventional medicine just can't touch? Caryn Grogan, of Origins Physical Therapy, joins us to share her transformative journey from traditional orthopedic therapies to the groundbreaking realm of Fascial Counterstrain, offering a beacon of hope for those plagued by chronic discomfort. Caryn's tale begins with a serendipitous encounter with this technique, which not only alleviated her own injury but also reshaped her entire professional ethos, leading to the creation of a practice that peers into the body's hidden layers to uncover and treat the root causes of pain.
Throughout our chat, Caryn peels back the layers on her educational metamorphosis, from earning her master's degree, and the profound influence of Brian Tuckey's teachings on her approach to physical therapy. She highlights the nuances of marketing a niche business in a world where personal connections trump traditional advertising, and celebrates the liberating shift toward direct patient access. Whether you're a skeptic of the status quo or a professional on the lookout for alternative methodologies, Caryn's expertise provides a fresh perspective on how understanding and treating our intricate bodily systems can lead to true healing and wellness.
Have you ever found yourself searching for answers to persistent pain that conventional medicine just can't touch? Caryn Grogan, of Origins Physical Therapy, joins us to share her transformative journey from traditional orthopedic therapies to the groundbreaking realm of Fascial Counterstrain, offering a beacon of hope for those plagued by chronic discomfort. Caryn's tale begins with a serendipitous encounter with this technique, which not only alleviated her own injury but also reshaped her entire professional ethos, leading to the creation of a practice that peers into the body's hidden layers to uncover and treat the root causes of pain.
Throughout our chat, Caryn peels back the layers on her educational metamorphosis, from earning her master's degree, and the profound influence of Brian Tuckey's teachings on her approach to physical therapy. She highlights the nuances of marketing a niche business in a world where personal connections trump traditional advertising, and celebrates the liberating shift toward direct patient access. Whether you're a skeptic of the status quo or a professional on the lookout for alternative methodologies, Caryn's expertise provides a fresh perspective on how understanding and treating our intricate bodily systems can lead to true healing and wellness.
Speaker 1:
I'm Karen Grogan, I'm a physical therapist and my business name is Origins Physical Therapy. I started my practice three years ago. I've been a PT for I want to say 23 years now and I worked in an outpatient facility an orthopedic outpatient about 17 years I want to say 16 or 17 years and I recently decided we moved and I decided that I was going to do my own thing, and that's three years ago. That's when it became real. I've been thinking about it for a while but I just said, okay, I'm jumping in with both feet. It took me a while because I did it after my kids were almost out of the house, so kind of a little fear there. But I decided that you know what, now or never, that's right. So basically, I started with outpatient orthopedic or traditional physical therapy. So what that means is like you go to PT, you do some exercises, some manual therapy, some massage, you know, depending on what you're being treated, and I seem to kind of develop this niche for treating chronic pain patients.
Speaker 1:
I took a class in 2006 called Counterstrain or Strain Counterstrain and what that is. It's also known as Fascial Counterstrain, but the initial class and I want to say it may as 2007, was counterstrain from Dr Lawrence Jones. He's an osteopath and is being taught by a physical therapist named Brian Duckey, who's in Frederick, and he is kind of the pioneer or the brains behind this technique. Now, wow, you got to learn from him, yes, and I've been able to be lucky enough to be so close to Frederick where he is to take classes and, in an indirect way, have him mentor me. So I started taking these classes around that time frame and really changed my way of practicing. It's a type of technique that is a manual technique, but the way it's different it's a little out of the box is that it treats every system in the body. So and now it's kind of the 2.0 version in 2024 is called fascial counter strain, which is a derivative of strain counter strain. So I started doing the fascial work and fascia is on everything Okay.
Speaker 1:
So if you look at the body and you think traditional PT and massage, that's muscle that's myofascia, but we have fascia everywhere, so we have it on, you know, arteries and veins and organs, and you name it. It's there and, if you can imagine, I can explain a little bit about fascia before I kind of yes, please do so.
Speaker 1:
If you think of fascia, think of a Halloween, when you put the web up around your door, that cotton candy looking thing that you string up the threads yeah, it's very similar to that. I would think that that's my interpretation of it. If I'm looking at it under a microscope, microscope and healthy fascia is very mobile and contractile Okay, and it moves with you, moves with your body. When we have unhealthy fascia, it doesn't move so much. It's it we get stuck, we feel stiff, we feel you know why are we not moving? And uh, so when I come into the fascial world in my treatment approach I'm assessing the fascia in the body, but in every system, not only the muscle system or the bone or the ligaments that we think of in like traditional PT or chiropractic or osteo orthopedics. So it's that, and then some I go about it in a way that is, I have a diagnostic approach that we are taught. You know you assess the whole body like you would in orthopedic physical therapy, um, head to toe assessment, uh, looking at different motions and mobility and function, but then using my hands and there's a very unique scan that's done actually through the head. You touch the head and you feel around and it's like a map to the body and it correlates to the areas of the body that are stiff. So if somebody is lacking range of motion in their spine, I can check and see which system.
Speaker 1:
Why is that? So it's more about okay, here you have a presentation of back pain, but why is that back pain happening? So we assume, well, you have a people like to say, slipped disc or you have a disc problem or sciatica, but why is that sciatic nerve irritated? Is it the nerve? Is it the nerve? Is it the muscle? Is it the organs that surround the low spine, like the kidneys or the bladder or even the intestines, protect and cause the fascia around that area to tighten up, and it can refer pain, if you will, to the structures that cause the back pain. So we always assume that it's oh, it must be my back or it must be the muscle. But the muscle is actually the protective response that occurs, and it could be another system that we don't think of. So the best example I can give is if you reach in the car, reach back for something to get something out of your seat and you pull a muscle, we assume, oh, I hurt my shoulder, it's my rotator cuff or it's my tendon.
Speaker 1:
But what about all the other structures there? So you have arteries, veins, you even have your lung fascia that's attached to that. You have ribs, you have cartilage, you have the brachial plexus. I mean, these are all fancy words, yes, but we look at the whole system and even sometimes it's not even where the pain is system, and even sometimes it's not even where the pain is. So, for instance, you know, somebody could come in. I'm also.
Speaker 1:
A side niche is pelvic floor therapy. I do women's health, so I treat through the fascial counter strain lens. But I have the skill set to assess for pelvic floor dysfunction and oftentimes when people come in for that problem they may not. It's the symptom, not the cause. So I have a way to assess the entire body and come up with why that pain is there. But where is it coming from and what system is it coming from? So it's pretty comprehensive and it's, I like to say, traditional PT, which is what I described earlier about going.
Speaker 1:
You know, doing exercises is super important, but this is kind of, I would say, the way you peel the layers back first to kind of see how your body can receive those exercises better so you don't have pain. If you've done an exercise, it's like, oh, that hurt, yes, right, well, why does it hurt? And so sometimes we can take the body and create more homeostasis, if you will, or balance, and then when you go and do that exercise again, or that squat or that, those stairs, oh wow, that felt so much better. And I may have treated not their knee if they had knee pain, but their hip or their shoulder or even their neck. So it's every. Did you hear the motto? Everything's connected, everything, yes, yes, so that's, that's basically in a nutshell. It makes sense, sense, oh, my gosh.
Speaker 2:
But no, you're so right. That was incredible the way you explained that. Like the little web cobweb on your board, that's wild. I usually just think, excuse me, I usually just think it's just like you said. Oh, I sprained my, my arm, my shoulder, but it's much more than that. And the fact that you can like check it.
Speaker 1:
All the map is in the head like whoa Right, and that's the part that's hard for people to grasp. It feels woo-woo to them. Or you know, people will say, I don't know, it's like magic, you touch here and you find here, and so the way it is. I'm trying to be pretty layman to understand. But the way we're developed in utero we're very organized, our bodies and everything correlates and I always hate to use this example, but if somebody were to have a stroke, the stroke is happening in the brain but it's impacting the body. So it's kind of the same thing the way our body and our brain is mapped. It is very structured and organized to a specific part of our body. So we can check some balances, we can find the restriction in the body, but we can connect it to something in the head and it's very specific.
Speaker 1:
I'm not arbitrarily guessing oh well, your knee hurts, it must be the tendon and I can do special tests and confirm or deny that. But there's multiple systems in the body. It's like what is that driving and what system is causing that? And sometimes there's more than one system and I like to say we got to peel the onion back and peel the layers of multiple things. So it's really changed the way I practice, and it's one of the reasons why I started my business three years ago, um, prior to that, I was working in an insurance model oh wow. And so insurance model is great and I had a lovely boss that we, um, I had flexibility and and everything, but what I was limited by was the fact that I was only able to treat like a body part.
Speaker 2:
And in the insurance model.
Speaker 1:
You have a contract with someone and in insurance and then somebody brings in a prescription and say knee pain or foot pain or even pelvic floor pain, and we we've put ourselves in a box to treat just that. And I was finding that I could still treat the way I was and justify what I was doing, to make the connections, but when it came to submitting to the insurance they would deny it because, well, this isn't medically necessary and it's like, well, but it's connected and I could write my notes but they would find that no, we'll give you. Or if I wanted more visits, I would get like two or three visits. So it was a little frustrating in that sense because I was tight and I was letting the insurance company dictate how I was treating. And that was very frustrating for me because I was getting some.
Speaker 1:
The more I was doing this, I found that the more complex patient I was getting, because I would have a colleague saying I, you know this person I don't understand, and, and they would, they would send them to me and we would peel these layers back and it would help them.
Speaker 1:
But it was sometimes complicated with insurance. So I decided when I moved that I was going to do my own thing because I didn't want to be limited with how I was treating and I decided I don't want the insurance company dictating how I treat and I still participate. I don't participate with insurance, but I do a super bill and I will give the patient an out of network. So I'm an out of network provider, so I give them a super bill so they can submit because I am a physical therapist and if there's objective measures that meet and there's goals that they have deficits like functional limitations, then it qualifies as physical therapy. It just would be considered out-of-network. But it allows me to give my patients more value for what I do and not be put in my box of confining me to treating just this body part, the standard, yeah. So it allowed me to have that freedom to have my patient as my client and not the insurance company, not dissing insurance companies. However, it just gave me some freedom for um, some wiggle room.
Speaker 2:
Yeah Well, good for you for being able to find your way and get yourself out of that box, and no more limitations for you.
Speaker 1:
So I'm happy for you in that regard, yeah, of course that was amazing.
Speaker 2:
Thank you for sharing that. By the way, like I get like the whole dirty nitty gritty of behind you know, fascia, myofascia yeah, it's all. It's so fascinating I can tell. And now can you tell me a little bit about your childhood? Who were you as a kid, were you always into? Like the medical field? How did you end up to where you are today?
Speaker 1:
So I've always loved science and the anatomy. I was an athlete, I swam and I was a ballet dancer, so I did ballet before I did swimming and so kind of switched gears. I danced for about 10 years and was really into it but then I switched into swimming and then wound up swimming in college and so I basically have always been around working out and using my body, as you know, for health reasons, but for exercise. I had I did have a shoulder injury in high school, that kind of I still swam, but it still was a nuisance, I should say of an injury, um, but I never, and I had PT off and on I had rehab, but nothing, you know, I felt better but it always seemed to like until I found fascial counter strain always seemed to kind of bug me, um, I, I, you know, I I had, I have a brother and you know we're just active and and running around, playing outside, building forts and things like that, yeah, just being kids.
Speaker 1:
But I always gravitated towards science. What got me interested in physical therapy is definitely a little different than my injury. I mean, I was associated with, like I like the human body, but I had a cousin who had special needs and I would help my aunt on the weekends and I just saw how physical therapy changed him and I was really intrigued by that. So that was my first interest in it. And then, when I had my injuries later on, that kind of piqued my interest even more and so I studied sports medicine, kinesiology in undergrad, and PT is now a doctorate. But I actually am a little older, so I transitioned into the master's program and the doctorate came behind me. But I went to Marymount and got my PT degree and I graduated in 2001. Right, so kind of that's kind of from childhood evolving into where you are today.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, it's always been, I think, in your bones to say no pun intended but, you know, always been like something you've been curious about, and it sounds like you and your brother were always using your body, so that definitely fascinated you.
Speaker 1:
So that's amazing. I've always been interested in sports and and movement and and particularly science, and I was never you know into the other, like political science or anything like that, sadly.
Speaker 2:
You're just like I like my science and I'm sticking to it.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2:
And now tell me a little bit about marketing, like for your business. What are you currently doing right now and what kind of advice could you offer other business owners?
Speaker 1:
So this is an interesting conversation because I feel like, first and foremost, if I'm being very candid and transparent, I feel like I'm a physical therapist that just happens to own a business, if that makes sense. Yes, and it's very new to me. However, when I came over to start my practice, I was nervous about even having patients. Will people? You know the fears of? Will even people come to see me? You know, with this business model even work it's during COVID Will I, even you know how will this be successful?
Speaker 1:
So I was planning on marketing, just like everybody else does. You know, I go to doctors or I would go to a doctor, but basically put myself on the CounterStrain website. When you take a class with Jones Institute, which is the counter strain website, they put your name on there. But then there's um, another counter strain website, when you've taken a little bit more uh, mastery courses and other courses that you can put your bio up there and when people search they can find you and there's a, there's a directory for all over the world. So you put your zip code in and I did that just thinking okay, well, hopefully this will help. People do call. Oh, wow, and they look you up. Additionally Tony Robbins, who is a motivational speaker.
Speaker 2:
Yes, I've heard of him.
Speaker 1:
Right, he recently wrote a book called Life Force and he mentioned us because he uses counter strain and he put the website. So I've gotten calls that way. And then the last website I'm on is I have a clientele called that see me Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, which is a connective tissue disorder or hypermobility syndrome. I'm also listed on that website because it's a clientele I do treat and so between those three websites, that's how people find me. Again, that is really the only marketing. I've done.
Speaker 1:
Everything I'm very lucky, has been word of mouth and it's either somebody's family member has been treated with this, like in California, and then they have a relative and they look me up, or I've seen family members that my husband needs to come to you. Oh, can you see my sister? Can you? You know? So that way, very little doctor referrals, which recently last year, july of 2023, virginia State does not require a prescription to treat for physical therapy anymore. We used to have 60 days to treat without a referral and that changed. So if you feel like you have a problem that's more of an orthopedic issue and nothing sinister, you can come directly to a PT and you don't need a referral. So if somebody's being under the care of a physician. I would evaluate them and send them a note, but so I don't need to necessarily market to doctors. I would rather market to somebody who would come see me directly.
Speaker 1:
But I haven't, fortunately. I've been blessed, I have not needed to do that yet and I've been very busy, so I'm very lucky in that regard. I talk to people. I will be at a friend's house and people ask what do you do? Or a friend says hey, I hear you're a physical therapist and I start to talk about what I do because I love it and I'm so passionate about it. And next thing, you know they text me or they call me hey, can I come in? You know I really have a nagging shoulder injury or a knee injury and I hear that you know you're different, or I understand, I appreciate our conversation. So that's really how I've come to have.
Speaker 1:
That's my marketing, that's awesome, like very personable and just having a connection Right, it's a lot of connections and a lot of word of mouth and I'm so grateful for that. And, honestly, when you feel it, it's hard to explain how I treat. But once you have it, it's hard, it's almost like wow, I didn't know, you could tell me this, but when you experience it, it's completely different.
Speaker 1:
I mean people leave and they're like, I feel, like I had a massage, but it's not really a massage, it's, it's, it's, it's just this fascial technique that's very gentle, that relaxes you um and makes your pain go away.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that's nice. They feel it as like it's. It's not a massage, but okay, if you feel like it was better for your, for your feelings, right.
Speaker 1:
And I think it's impactful for people that I go home and they tell people their family members and their friends and next thing, I know you know, the next call is coming in saying hey, my friend saw you and you really helped her, and so that's really how my marketing is done.
Speaker 2:
I love that. What advice would you give to somebody who is struggling like on that end, you know, online with your different technique of, so to speak, marketing like word of mouth? What would you want to tell somebody Like if they're not into social media?
Speaker 1:
Um, if, as there as a business owner, yes, I would say you be passionate about what you love and do and find a way to talk about it, because that's what I did and it works. I didn't, I don't have a business degree. I do this basically because I love it and I'm passionate about it and I feel like when you love something and you work hard at it, people know and they will, they'll, they'll see it and they see, see how, how that translates into your work. I think yes.
Speaker 2:
That makes sense actually. Yeah, so you can just feel it, so you can tell through the passion and honestly, like if you're happy, your clients will be happy, right, right.
Speaker 1:
So it translates it's like a connection Right and I think, because it is my own business and I have a lot I, you know I'm not I would work really hard for somebody else and I have. But when you're starting your own practice and this is yours now, um, you're, you're so much more invested in it to to, to almost pay it forward, you know, to other people, like I love this work, not only just, not only because it helps people, but it's helped me and I can share that and and I feel really, really rewarded when people feel better and get better.
Speaker 2:
Yay, thank you for sharing that. And now, um, just to wrap things up, if you could leave us with one message for our listeners, what would that message be? It can be, in regards to physical therapy, life, sports.
Speaker 1:
What would that message be? That's a good question. Oftentimes I hear people say, oh, physical therapy doesn't help and there's so many niches of physical therapy and so many types of PT, so if it doesn't help, it may be not the right kind, because there's all different kinds of PT and I truly believe traditional PT is very helpful for so many people. But this is a different approach and sometimes thinking outside the box of alternative treatments that may look at the body differently may help you. So I don't want to. I feel like physical therapy sometimes gets a bad rap oh, that hurt me. Or I felt worse when I went to PT, and that's not to me. That PT shouldn't make you. Physical therapy shouldn't make you feel worse. It just might not be the right fit what you were doing. So sometimes finding that holistic, whole body approach may be more helpful.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and you never know until you try it.
Speaker 1:
So give it a try. Exactly.
Speaker 2:
Yeah Well, thank you so much for coming in and sharing that with us, and I just appreciate your time. No, no, no problem, thank you.