Leigh Newport of Staged By Design

Speaker 1: 0:30

And then that's for how many years? Now 16.

Speaker 2: 0:33

So yeah, so it's mostly going back to basics actually. Yeah, doing more in-person marketing and presentations and training classes and things that we've always done, but I think that, at least for me, they tend to fall by the wayside when you're in the thick of things, because you don't necessarily have to do those Businesses coming at you from all sides yeah, just great. So it's just coming back to basics, honestly. And then at least for getting with real estate agents and then amping up our social media that's our other bigger what are you doing on social media?

Speaker 2: 1:08

Well, I mean Facebook, instagram. I'm not on TikTok, but you are, you are.

Speaker 1: 1:14

I hate. I don't like TikTok. I'm not on TikTok, I won't get on.

Speaker 2: 1:16

TikTok. I mean, I have an account that doesn't know. I do anything with it, though, so it's mostly just it's blogging as well. We're working on our SEO to make sure that our online presence is. That's smart Our websites. You're easily found when people are searching. Yeah, Creator is doing a review this week, actually just to make sure if there's something else. We're not optimizing as things continue to change. We're blogging more intentionally with that and monetizing shot the look boards, which we've done all along, but we've done them more just as to change up our content, to have some that's visual, that's not just hey, look at what we did. This is the house we staged.

Speaker 1: 1:53

I know, you know it's funny, because actually I was just talking to my team about this, about, like, our own social media, like I don't want any more posts. That's like hey, love photographing Sally today, right, you know, like that doesn't provide any value for the audience watching. Yeah, I know Like, give a tip, be like, look at how she wears white on white, which is usually a faux pas, but here at Alamon Studio we were able to, you know whatever. So then people are like, oh, I can wear white in the studio, right.

Speaker 2: 2:22

Well, and looking at our SEO and what in the past has really resonated with our audience if you will Like I'm world domination here, but it is you might as well. No, but you know, you can see it had the greatest traction, even if it wasn't just on Facebook, or maybe people saved it more on Pinterest, and it was things that were paint colors for the year, like we did our own branded paint color list. There's everybody's Sherwin Williams, benjamin Moore, pantone but these are our home staging favorites and that was a huge hit. And who knew? Who knew that was going to be such a big thing? So that, and think about centerpieces OK, so now we need to do more things that are staging adjacent, but not necessarily just.

Speaker 2: 3:05

Here's what we did today, just like you said, yeah, how about YouTube? Have you guys thought about that? Yes, I'm a sporadic video content creator, to be very honest. Yeah, yeah, we started a spotlight series and the spotlight was just anything from something that we a message that we wanted to get across to our clients and our friends, or it was very topic driven, or it was SEO driven and things ebb and flow. So we've kind of we need to pick that up again.

Speaker 1: 3:38

Essentially, yeah, and because here's the thing with YouTube, it can be as simple as you're already doing these things, you're already going to consult with clients, you're already creating the what do you call them Modeboards, brand boards.

Speaker 2: 3:50

Yeah, the shop, the look boards. What are they called? Shop the look.

Speaker 1: 3:53

Shop the look boards.

Speaker 1: 3:53

Yeah, shop the look boards. Exactly, You're already creating all that Like get like a little GoPro camera or whatever. You already have your phone, put it up on something so it can see what you're doing and just talk through your thought process. Like it could be as simple as something like that and people watch it and they're like, oh my gosh, that's great. You know so. It's just. I'm sure you've heard of Gary Vee. It's like document versus trying to create. Yes, it just makes it easier. You know, like these one to ones I would have normally, but now I get to like do it in a way that I can like share with my audience, Right, and it makes it interesting because I think people want to see behind the curtain.

Speaker 1: 4:33

Yeah, sometimes in other businesses, yes, and then especially local marketing yeah, so I talk with local. You know people that are locally in the business service providers. Yeah, so they like to see and hear what other people are doing and they might just take a little nugget and be like, oh, I could apply that to my business. Tell me a little bit more about your business for people that don't know what you do.

Speaker 2: 4:54

Well, we offer home staging, interior redesign. We've branched out into short-term rentals. We also do color consultations. We offer our staging consultations Virtually. We kept that as a service that we had to adjust to during COVID, yeah, but essentially we primarily serve the real estate market. That's our I won't say bread and butter, but that's always been our focus. We've just expanded to have other services that as the market needs and as it adjusts. We found those Airbnb's and short-term rentals to be a fun, a fun, interesting foray into that. My background priority getting into this was Marriott, was hospitality for 15 years. It's such an interesting blending of the things that I know in this business but also knowing how to meet a guest expectation and what a room should look like and what luxury and comfort means when you're sleeping, versus walking into a room and getting a first impression. So that's a really-.

Speaker 1: 5:46

I was going to say I didn't even think about that.

Speaker 2: 5:47

Oh, my God.

Speaker 1: 5:48

So that was going to be my next question. Yeah, it's like you told me the first half of it. You told me what you do, yes, but then like, why are these not why you do it? But why are these things important?

Speaker 2: 6:01

Why do real estate agents or sometimes homeowners, why do they come to you in the first place, which it sounds like you kind of touched on there on that last piece, yes, Well, it's become the standard in many ways for real estate agents to incorporate staging because the presentation portion of it, as it has evolved over the years, with the visuals and with online marketing and online presence and photos, they become the digital footprint, they become the digital first impression. So therefore, it's number one, it's another. What we do is provide a tool in an agent's toolbox, but it's also their fiduciary responsibility to give their client every possible benefit to get the most amount of money in the sale of the house. So we are often in between between a real estate agent that might understand and know that something needs to change within this house before you put it on the market, but either they don't have that same skill set to provide that advice or, more importantly, they don't want to devote the amount of time to that deep dive. That's two hours shoulders shoulder with the client, telling them what of their personal items needs to be removed, what needs to be changed, because they're better served trying to market to their clients or to find a buyer.

Speaker 2: 7:13

So we come in and act as a partner to that real estate agent to provide that advice. But then we also have the vacant staging side where we can really just set up that mini model home in the course of a day. So that does provide a great option for people that either don't have the right furniture but, more so, a lot of times it's what they have doesn't match the demographic of the buyer because they're in a different season of their life, so what they have is not the visual expectation of the buyer coming in. So that's what we can create. We need to have a blank slate and create something that someone in that subset of individuals, whether the 30s, 40s, 50s move up buyer, you know, or a downsizer can resonate with.

Speaker 1: 7:57

So you are so kind in the way you describe it, like you're so like PC and like Because I went into some ugly. But house, beautiful houses. No, don't get me wrong here. Beautiful house is ugly furniture, ugly staging. And I'm usually good at visualizing. Things can look like, but I'm like, okay, I can visualize what it's going to look like in the after, but this is really hard with this, like old furniture and just the decor and it does. It hurts the perception of the property and it's hard. I can imagine how it would be hard for an agent to have to go to their clients and say no-transcript, we've got to move things around here, right, we can't keep what you have here.

Speaker 2: 8:45

And it is hard, and a lot of Asians don't say any of that. They just say you know, part of what I do is I bring a stage or anything. They're going to give you that opinion because you need to preserve your relationship with your client A client but they need to hear the message. So you're right, there's. I call it diplomacy with kindness.

Speaker 1: 9:01

There we go. I like that.

Speaker 2: 9:03

You have to say that there's an issue, whether it's an odor or an aesthetic, but you have to say it in a way that the person will still listen to you and allow you to know how it feels and not hurt the feelings and just get the job done, Not hurt their feelings. Yeah, I mean, and it's really interesting to hear you say that as a you know, a visual person, as a photographer, even for you, that if it's not the way that it should be, it's hard for you to see, because I'm, you know, kind of looking through the eyes of the camera. When I think about where the couch should be, I'm thinking about how the photographer is most likely going to photograph the space and therefore stage to that 50% of the time. 50% it's about the feeling. So I just find that incredibly interesting that even somebody like you goes. Oh, I.

Speaker 1: 9:44

I have to put on my like kindness eyes here to try to like and see some of this stuff.

Speaker 2: 9:52

That's why what we do is important, because so many people can't see that or they don't have the spatial awareness to understand even how to set up these open floor plans, or or.

Speaker 1: 10:04

I've come to like spaces where it's decorated beautifully and then, like you, see the space without any of the furniture and it makes such a big difference. It can go from like this luxury town home, like in house type suite, like just oh my gosh, beautiful to like, oh, it's just another town home, just like all the rest. So that can like make or break the camera. The price point right. Does it affect the price point? Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 10:30

Well, in two ways it does.

Speaker 1: 10:31

Once you have a house staged, it's typically not prudent to say, hey, we're going to up the, up the cost you know, of course, by 50 grand, but you want to justify the cost, you want to justify it and allow people to see the final result.

Speaker 2: 10:42

For sure, and oftentimes I mean, the goal is to sell the house for more money in less time and if you can reduce the carrying costs and you don't have to have that house particularly in a market like right now linger into the second week or the third week, yeah, at which point you're going to have to have a conversation about price reduction. If you can sell that house because it looks better, even though it's the same house as one, two or three, you know, blocks down, but it looks better in those photos you're you're really appealing to an emotion that most people would never admit that they buy from.

Speaker 1: 11:12

Yeah, oh, we do everything through emotion. I just posted something this morning about like in anything in life, everything in life, like you've it. Don't make decisions off emotion. If it's an important one, right? Because it's our natural go-to as humans to do everything through emotions. So how did you get into this?

Speaker 2: 11:33

It is not linear. I can tell you I was really very lucky because I stumbled into it. We I'm a native Virginia, but we moved to California and that's my three-year detour. I've called it my husband's from California, but we moved out there and then, when we were relocating back here, I was still working for Marriott and we had our house staged. And this is 2005, so it's before HGTV has become the norm or a standard. This is before people have ever even heard of staging, for the most part here in the East Coast, because it started on the West and moved here.

Speaker 2: 12:08

So and and I've told the story before, but it is I think it bears repeating because it's my first experience with staging was my husband calling to tell me there's another woman in the house moving stuff around? Really, I was here in Virginia, yeah, he says. Well, she told me to move this. I'm like are you kidding me? That looked good there because I was that house proud person. Yeah, I had that creative gene. That's what I loved. But I had a corporate job. I was a corporate trainer for Marriott. I worked at the hospitality in the hotels. So I wanted to do something creative, but I had children, I was in my late 30s, and it was gotta be creative to have children.

Speaker 1: 12:46

I'll say that It'll test every bit of it for sure.

Speaker 2: 12:51

But you know, it wasn't something that I knew existed, that I could channel my I guess talents or at least desires into until that time. And so I learned a little bit more about what this guy was doing and how she worked, and I was on the plane coming back here as we're relocating, and there was actually an article in the Southwest magazine about the creative home staging how to get started and I'm like, okay, there you go, it's a sign. It's a sign and your guide. I can't get any clearer than this. Yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 1: 13:22

Did you say that article no One magazine I would have kept from the airplane?

Speaker 2: 13:27

I know right, I know I probably did for a while, but I keep purging because I don't want to be this person good, but as a house full of stuff, but yeah, so I started my business when my youngest was two.

Speaker 1: 13:38

Okay.

Speaker 2: 13:39

That was fun.

Speaker 1: 13:40

All right, and then how many? And you said that was 16 years ago, mm-hmm, oh my gosh. Yeah, so your youngest is now 18. Yeah, I just dropped him off at college. Oh, how do you feel about that?

Speaker 2: 13:50

Um, I mean, I'm adjusting fine. Okay, the house is quieter, for sure, and it's part of me. After I got him through graduating high school, mm-hmm. Then I felt a little bit of of almost relief and felt like I was. There were things that I felt like I could give Myself permission to do, like what? So, for example, if your girlfriend says, hey, let's go out Tuesday, and then your husband goes date night Wednesday and then something else pops on Thursday, I may not have been out three nights a week, even if the 18 year old would only have a 20 minute dinner with me.

Speaker 2: 14:21

Yeah it's all you got and you know that they're not gonna be there for a long time. So I we wouldn't take a trip, and they were, or I just wouldn't be out, because all I have is that 20 minute dinner right.

Speaker 1: 14:35

I spent an hour for a pink floor.

Speaker 2: 14:37

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:38

I know.

Speaker 2: 14:39

But now I'm like doesn't matter, I'm like I'm gonna have, I'm gonna live my best life, I'm gonna be out doing this and and it's, and that's. That's what I've just been permission because you, you, you know, as a parent we Are. A lot of us focus a lot of who we are on our children and you have to find an identity outside of them. Even though we never lose ourselves, there's parts of ourselves I think that we don't get to Explore even more. So I think the biggest things we don't give ourselves permission to do and I think that's important, because once those kids leave there, you know you've got to be who you are with your husband again and you've got to be okay with who you are- Mm-hmm and outside of them, because you've done your job and they.

Speaker 2: 15:26

It's not that they don't need you, but not that same way. So once you get to that mental shift, you're like, all right, what am I gonna do next? Yeah, this is great.

Speaker 1: 15:36

So, besides going out with your friends, what's your other like guilty pleasure for your time?

Speaker 2: 15:41

Well, I took a big leap. In April I bought a horse.

Speaker 1: 15:46

Really did you're like the third person who's told me they're a horse owner that's come into the studio lately. Yeah, and I have. You had experience with horses.

Speaker 2: 15:55

I did. I grew up writing. I'm going full circle, okay here. And I grew up writing as a kid. It was the one, it was my one thing. That's all I wanted to do. And I rode in high school, I was on the equestrian team in college and then you know, just, you get into work and life and and I got back into it when, oh Gosh, my oldest who's will be turning 24, when he was in kindergarten. So I released a horse and took lessons again. But then I started the business, mm-hmm, and then you know, you've got there's very little time and when you're building a business and what's left your family gets. So I didn't give myself permission, but about two years ago I started taking lessons again. I've actually two and a half and and yeah, I, because I'm at a certain age that if I don't do it now, what am I waiting for? My body's not going to get any more Healthy. I'm not gonna. You know you can't delay these things forever. So yeah, why not? I know this an. I love it.

Speaker 2: 16:53

What's your horse? I love the horse. His name is Finn. He is a. He's like 15'3 hands. He is a chrome. I got a little chrome on him, which basically means a little white sock and a blaze Chestnut off the track. Thoroughbred, okay, but he's beautiful. I just like to look at him and tell him how pretty he is. I do all the time.

Speaker 1: 17:17

Like you know, your job is just to listen to me tell you how amazing. So, basically, what's your youngest son's name? Oh, riley, you forgot that one.

Speaker 2: 17:26

Yeah, I know I'm like well, which one?

Speaker 1: 17:27

Younger, older, I know.

Speaker 2: 17:28

We're all about the horse.

Speaker 1: 17:29

Come on, it's about the horse. So Riley's been in place with Finn for at least time. Wise, that was an adjustment.

Speaker 2: 17:35

Yeah, he came in April and it was. Yeah, this was intentional.

Speaker 1: 17:40

I'm sure Riley doesn't mind, though, because he gets to go and, like, also tell Finn how handsome he is.

Speaker 2: 17:45

Yeah, so he doesn't know what to do with him. He's like Mom, he's touching me.

Speaker 1: 17:48

I know, yeah, just let him do his thing. Just let him do it. That's amazing. Congratulations, thank you. I'm like really like not continuously putting yourself last and finally like giving yourself permission to step in and rediscover who you are.

Speaker 2: 18:06

Well, it's as much about a mental space. You have to be very present when you're around a multi-ton animal. Yeah, you know you can't zone out, you can't take a call. Yeah, I mean, this barn puts me back to where it was mentally when I was about 15. I love it and I mean that's priceless. Honestly, I love that I don't look like I did when I was 15, when I was riding you probably do, though there's a certain muscle memory I'm super proud of, and some of them like God, I tell my trainer all the time you don't understand. I used to be really good. I mean really good. Believe me when I say it Really good. Like I want to show you a picture of how good I was when I was doing this. And now I'm okay, it doesn't matter, because there's no person that's driving me to do this but me. So I don't have a goal of showing and doing all those external things. This is for me and I can do what I choose. I'm jumping, but you know they're not very big.

Speaker 1: 19:02

You know, I was filming at Wheatland Farms a couple of weeks ago, so they, yeah, and me and my team, we had forgotten that we're filming. We cannot chase horses, we're fine. I've done it before, a few years ago when I was filming them for another one, where I'm like trying to like run to get a shot and, right, like you cannot run with well, no, especially when they've got, like you know, kids on their back and but it was fine, everything was fine. But yes, it was a good, like you were saying, being super present. It was a good reminder of like.

Speaker 1: 19:39

And then also, when I did drone, I warned them. I was like I think the drone is going to freak the horses out. And they're like, probably I'm like, well, I'm concerned the fact that you're riding the horses while I'm doing the drone. And she's like, yeah, let's just keep it up high. Which nothing happened again. Good, thank God. But yeah, it's, it's. It was an adventure, but a fun one, because horses are these big, beautiful, like creatures that you just want to like under. When you look in their eyes, they have the prettiest eyes and you just want to like understand their soul.

Speaker 2: 20:10

I do. And the funniest thing is, you know, we, we pour our hearts and absolutely our wallets into these animals and it's like the simplest. I'm like, oh, you just gave me a little tiny hug, is it for a millisecond? Or like when they walk up to you in the field, like you do love me, yeah, you do love me, thank you. Thank you for that. You know, that's all I needed. That's all I needed. Here's another $10,000.

Speaker 1: 20:34

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 20:34

I know why. I was just like your horse got a massage. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, he did, thank you, it's equine body work, it's a thing. And he's like, all right, when do I get a massage? I don't know, basically, but that's okay, that's awesome, okay.

Speaker 1: 20:47

So besides Finn, yes, where do you see your business in the next five to 10 years?

Speaker 2: 20:55

Well, so it's interesting. For many years I felt like every year about this time probably a month before, you know, towards the end of the year, like what's the next big thing, what's our big push, what's going to be what's our next thing, and whether it's an innovation, a better way to do something. But more so it was. I felt like I needed to do something big, to continue to be a little bit, a little bit.

Speaker 1: 21:27

Yeah, I guess that every two years.

Speaker 2: 21:29

To be relevant, to have something else to market. What's our big thing? And then it came to a certain part that you don't necessarily have to come up with something different, you just have to do what you're doing better. And so we've really focused as much instead of about complete reinvention because we survived COVID, we and we thrived and we've gotten through what we feel are some really hard times with that. But now it's more about just consistency and efficiency. So we, you know we do what we do really well, we feel, and so it's. I don't have massive expansion plans, I just want to continue to be smarter about every single thing we do as we can, and the only problem with that is it's not very sexy.

Speaker 1: 22:16

I was going to say how do you do that? Because I have an idea of how we're doing here at the studio. But how do you guys?

Speaker 2: 22:21

Well, for us, again, it's process. I was going to say systems. Yeah, I'm a huge systems person and that's my Marriott indoctrination. And I called indoctrination because before I get legally drink, as I'm working for Marriott, I was learning the standard operating procedures. I had the manuals. That's how they taught you to do things and that's how that company scaled with such great success. So we have done that above and beyond. So now we're continuing to do that, but even more so about when we've got these internal systems. How can we make them smarter for us? And how, but how can we take that into a client care system and to make our client interactions even more intentional, and how do we make them feel more loved instead of hey, thanks for your business? So I think that's it's. I think it's even harder to take a system but have it be client focused or some kind of still person.

Speaker 2: 23:14

Yeah, especially with so much AI I know, which I don't love.

Speaker 1: 23:19

Yeah, it's great. Now there are people like talking, but it's not them, but it's like their image. It's like at least where it's at right now. You know it's an AI person, right? Yes, why are you using it Like there's no pulling Right? I know, at least right now it's probably going to change, but yeah, yeah, I don't like it.

Speaker 2: 23:37

I don't either, I don't either I. What I dislike about it, of course, is the written word that. How will you ever know?

Speaker 1: 23:44

Yes, I do like AI. Yes, I just don't like efficiency For efficiency correct. I don't like AI for like trying to pretend like it's a human Right.

Speaker 2: 23:54

It's kind of scary what you can ask it and it's not horrible when it comes to responses. That's a scary thing because I'm a big book person. I love literature.

Speaker 1: 24:05

I love the written word. I want to hold a book.

Speaker 2: 24:06

Absolutely no kindles for me. No, I am old school. I bring heavy books when I travel, me too. Yeah, so I want that.

Speaker 1: 24:15

So I don't know where that's going to go, but I don't know You're going to embrace what we can, yes and then just learn from the mistakes and try to keep doing better. So I don't know if I even answered your question yeah, just to process the systems, trying to keep everything a little more personal. Yes, like, not more personal, but just continue being personal in your systems and not necessarily reinventing the wheel, just doing what you're already doing better Right, Because I think most creatives don't have those systems.

Speaker 2: 24:44

I think that the creative brain isn't always the one that's business-based or even more so. That's 100 percent right. Systems and creativity do not typically go hand in hand. I know so. I'm lucky that I've got people to implement them. I was going to say are you?

Speaker 1: 24:56

more of the creatives? Yes, okay, I'm more of systems, and it's hard when I'm speaking to a team of creatives, yes, and it's like, no, we got. There's a reason why we have to follow. They hate it when I'm like did you look at the checklist?

Speaker 2: 25:11

Yes, I can say I need to have a system for this and I know it needs to have this and this and this, and then I need to have someone else fill in the seven to 10 steps that I left out when I was telling them. I want to know what the end result looks like and I want it documented and I'll proof it, but I'm the one who says we just need to have a system for this. You're right.

Speaker 1: 25:31

I kind of do that a little bit too. Yeah, lil over here is the one who like, like, just feel me doing the things Right and then write out all the steps and put in the questions to make sure that the person watching it knows Right.

Speaker 2: 25:44

Well, actually we've started using video tutorials, yeah, Instead of just the straight up. You know, manual.

Speaker 1: 25:50

Step by step, yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:51

Oh, it's great. Yes, because our CRM is the school function. And what do you use? Zoho one.

Speaker 1: 25:55

Zoho one. Okay, I haven't heard of that. I mean, I've heard of Zoho, I guess.

Speaker 2: 25:59

But it's a gigantic corporation, okay, it's immensely intimidating.

Speaker 1: 26:03

Yeah, I was going to say I think there's lots of different things. It does right? Oh, it does.

Speaker 2: 26:07

Everything. Okay. It does so much more than we need, but that's okay. Yeah, you know, you can grow with it, absolutely. I know I mean there's an app for everything within it, but it's. But that means it's. It's. When we come to the time when we want to change something, I don't have to go to an outside system. It's all in house and that's hugely valuable, all right.

Speaker 1: 26:24

So besides Zoho one, what's another resource, whether it's a software or a book or a course that you've taken, that you're like this has helped my business in some way shape reform immensely.

Speaker 2: 26:36

Oh, I think for me it was just being part of trade associations. I started that relatively early on with the training class that I took before I started my business. There was a local chapter and I became heavily involved and was president and all that. I think with any of those organizations, realistically, it's the people that you meet and the bonds that you form that sustain you over time and after you get to a certain point in your business. At least for me, it feels like you are giving more than you're getting. As some.

Speaker 2: 27:07

I don't want to say that they're not valuable, because they are, but I think that once you reach a certain point in your business, unless you, unless there are other seasoned people that are right there along with you, there's nobody else to answer your questions. So finding other people that I can rely on has been just fantastic. I've got lifelong friends that I can call and say all right, this is what I'm dealing with. How do you handle this and am I approaching this? How would you do this? And is this? Am I being too much of a stickler on this? Am I being too lenient? You know, you know systems and processes, contracts, and so you're looking more for a community at the point of those trade associations more than like customers and clients.

Speaker 2: 27:51

Oh, for sure, For sure, and it could, because there were more staging associations and I've gone through several of them and they all have been wonderful, and you get tidbics, I feel like when you go to anything where you take time away from your business and whether it's a conference, you know you tune out and you devote that time just to learning.

Speaker 2: 28:08

You're going to get some takeaways, you're going to find some gems, but I think from a long-term sustainability, it's the people that you admire that you get to know who then can help you, you know, become somebody that you can lean on. And we've had little masterminds and just outside of these organizations which is great, I just I find it a community, because when you're a single business owner, you don't have that one other person that you can say. What do you think I can ask my husband? He works in my business but he doesn't know anything about staging, yeah, so it's great to have that person that's not in your area even to say am I praising myself?

Speaker 1: 28:49

Yeah, not really what do you think? Can I do this? I love that. I love that perspective too. Yeah, oh, my gosh, you're so much fun to talk to. Thank you you can talk with. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today. I appreciate your time. It was so good to learn a little bit more and now I know who to reach out to if I want to go and, like, snuggle with the horse.

Speaker 2: 29:12

Oh, anytime it's such therapy, just wear big shoes. There we go.

Speaker 1: 29:18

Thank you so much, you're welcome.