The Alimond Show

Maggie Hatfield & Stephanie Callaghan of 15 West Homes Real Estate

October 31, 2023 Alimond Studio
The Alimond Show
Maggie Hatfield & Stephanie Callaghan of 15 West Homes Real Estate
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Ever wondered how the power of Artificial Intelligence can revolutionize your real estate business? Curious about how long-form YouTube content and platforms like TikTok and Reels can take your marketing strategies to the next level? Join us as we navigate these thrilling concepts, sharing our business values and vision, and discussing our commitment to maintaining honesty and integrity in our operations.

In an industry that is constantly evolving, the ability to adapt and reinvent can be the difference between success and stagnation. As we take a deep dive into our ambitious plans for expansion, we shed light on the value of customer focus and the importance of adaptability in a fast-paced digital landscape. We also share our insights on enhancing customer experiences, our five, ten, and twenty-year visions, and our commitment to creating opportunities for others. 

Our journey doesn't stop there, as we also explore the challenges and goals in the business world. We draw parallels between the world of parenting and running a business, emphasizing the significance of effort in both areas and how these lessons can help in the business world. We discuss the importance of building a strong community and recognizing agents for their contributions, and how to navigate the digital landscape while adhering to regulations. So, buckle up for an enlightening discussion, and let's reimagine the real estate industry together.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so marketing community spotlights, business owners, blog posts. What else are you guys doing in terms of like getting the word out there?

Speaker 2:

Um, you know, we're probably just really leaning in hard on long form YouTube content and we know that because we want to build SEO value, organic value and not paid, because it lasts longer and it's more, you know, attracts actually better than necessarily better people, but just the right type of people, which is better, it's more legitimate. Yeah, I do feel like that helps build reputation, and we started doing this in March because we knew it. You know, seo is a long it's a long tail. So, um, we're starting to see some traction, and so it's been six months, but we've been very consistent, which you know is very key for ensuring that every week, we publish a long form video. What we need to do now, and what the video team is supposed to help us with, is chop those things up into smaller so we can leverage reels a little bit more. Yeah, and TikTok. So that's why we do the business spotlights because we can make them shorter and they're in the right format they're vertical and not horizontal so that we can then publish on TikTok and make them.

Speaker 1:

Have you thought about using AI? Ai to help you with the? We do use it to write our scripts. Well, no, to help chop up the videos. What's the name of the program?

Speaker 3:

No, she was just talking to me about that this morning. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

What's your number? What is it called Lil, Is it? Oh, I can't remember, oh, because.

Speaker 2:

Connie yeah, opus, is it Opus Ellipse, Connie, my friend Connie told me about that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So like so she's gonna submit the link or I'll go look it up. Yeah, and I think Cass had sent one to me too, so we'll have to check that out.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, you put in the long form content video and it will give you some really great clips.

Speaker 2:

We're all about.

Speaker 1:

AI.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I know, yeah, because more bang for your buck in all that investment you put in the long form video.

Speaker 1:

So that's why it's like, yeah, I invest in the long form piece, right, have it beautifully edited by my amazing Lil right over here, make it look good, sound good. And then it's like before the AI, I used to personally go in at the beginning and chop it all up. It would take like three hours just to chop something up.

Speaker 3:

And now it's like it's like I could just press a button and it's smart enough that you're happy with it and it looks good.

Speaker 1:

It puts the captions on there. It's got some good cuts on it. Yeah, yes, yeah, look into it, it's good.

Speaker 2:

We have to revisit our budget where our budget is allocated. I'm just kidding, but I mean I would say that you know we've been a brokerage for two and a half years.

Speaker 1:

And how long?

Speaker 2:

have you guys been together? Well, we joined together on the brokerage two and a half years ago, but we met in 2017 at Pearson and we just became locked at the hip because we shared the same vision and we shared the same morals and we shared the same.

Speaker 1:

What are those morals? It's hard to do, right? Yeah, one integrity Sounds like one of them. No, you go.

Speaker 3:

So, from that standpoint, we both came from a corporate background, so we really believe in treating real estate as a business right. Unfortunately, we feel like a lot of agents get into it not knowing. You know, they just watch HGTV and they're going to sell some houses.

Speaker 1:

Get houses all day.

Speaker 3:

You get big paychecks and there's a whole. There's no more about the industry. But so we felt that we wanted to help agents learn to build it and treat it as a business. So that was super important. We had been, as Maggie said, together at the same brokerage. We learned a lot of great things, but felt that that was part of what was lacking and as somebody helping us realize those next steps in our career progression. So that was huge.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I also think that we're very focused on impact and helping people. And it does sound cliche, but we've both managed teams, we've both been mentors, and so extending that into this industry whether it's with a client or with an agent was a key driver for us, because it just makes us feel good. You feel like if you're having an impact, you're providing value. Everything else doesn't really matter. So we kind of aligned on that. We kind of aligned on we're very honest, probably to a fault, no, I don't know. I feel like we have very high level of integrity and we are never going to pressure anybody to do something that's not in their best interest and we're never going to pressure anybody to make a decision based on a gain for us. So we see it in business right, a lot of people just not really having much regard for anything else, but like driving themselves forward and meeting their goals, no matter what.

Speaker 1:

Here's my question to you how do you see the difference between that and the best decision? If you want the, if you're focused just on financial for? the client, because I've heard a lot of people that are like I wish I would have just did it three years ago. I wish I would have just bought my home three years ago, but my agent was just kind of like we can just keep looking and then it just fell off my priority list and I just didn't do it. Hearing stories like that, I'm like if only your agent was like listen, I can't tell the future, but right now is the best time and we do that.

Speaker 2:

I mean, we have those conversations, but at the end of the day, it's their decision. I would never want to be in a position where oops, I would never want to be in a position where I kind of persuaded somebody to make a decision that really didn't, regardless of the interest rate. Right, there may be benefits of that, but it may not have been the right house, May not have been really the right time. Is there ever a right house? Well, there never is. That's what we tell people.

Speaker 3:

right, it's never perfect, but you know, great construction will never be perfect.

Speaker 2:

But I will tell you, during the pandemic people were compromising and there is a huge amount of buyers remorse out there because there was such a friend's book and they're like.

Speaker 1:

it was never shown to me that the roof is whatever. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, because everybody waved everything. Yeah, they waved everything just to get the house. Yeah, you're right.

Speaker 2:

So I mean, it's an interesting industry to be in and, coming from the high-tech industry, real estate has been kind of upended a little bit with technology, but not to the degree that now AI is coming in and so we're seeing a lot more shifts in technology in this industry, which I did, it dabbled in it in 2006, 2007, and 2008. And it was like still paper, like the listings were in a binder paper binder right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you go by the buildings and they have them in the windows, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So we've come a long way, but it was just funny because I was used to such a high-tech environment and then coming into this industry was interesting.

Speaker 1:

So do you like it more now, as it's shifting? Yes, okay.

Speaker 2:

I love technology, I love learning new tools, so that's a big thing for me. Like I'll go in and just like go, oh, that video thing that cuts up short videos. I'm going to look at that today.

Speaker 3:

Yes, she's always driving the ship on that. She's like, hey, I played with this this weekend and I did this and I'm like, okay.

Speaker 2:

She's got kids. She's got other things, yeah, but mine are older.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome, so you do like it, because a lot of people. Well, I guess it depends on your age and technology savviness, because I'm hearing from agents that either love it or they absolutely hate it, because they feel like it's taking away some of the value that agents were previously able to provide. Now the consumer is able to get that without them, Right? There's a lot more data available, for sure.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, right, but I was going to elaborate on this earlier. The whole idea of AI, though that AI is not going to actually be able to counsel you. They can't give you advice. I mean, that's the way we interact with people. Maggie and I both will say we're not salespeople. We really want to be an advisor, a consultant, and that's how we approach our relationships with clients. You just have to learn how to shift your role. Now, your role is to help interpret the data, because they have access to almost all the data that we have, but they don't necessarily have the background to interpret it, understand what it means. That's not their full-time job, so I think it's just figuring out how to adapt with that to be relevant.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think it's. At the end of the day, it's a good thing for the consumer. May not be the best thing for this role, but at the end of the day, like she said, it's really about where do you add value then? How do you approach the situation? Because I don't feel like we're ever going to be disintermediated as a person-to-person business and role. So I know a lot of people are afraid that we're just going to be erased from the whole equation, but I just feel like it's such a personal. I mean, half the time we're psychologists, we're talking people off a ledge, we're like it's okay, but I think that that's a value that you can provide. That's never going to go away, especially because, when you said, they don't do this every day, they do it maybe one or two times in their lifetime. You have a team, though, right? Or is it just you two? We have a brokerage. We have a few agents. Now we have a lot of agents, but, realizing that half of them didn't want to work and they thought it was easy, we made a pivot, and so now we have a handful of agents, but they're all relatively new.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

So we're still sitting on the both sides of the fence.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I was going to say what made you decide to go that route, but it sounds like you're trying to figure out if you want to go to that route or are you? Committed? No, we're committed because this is publishing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, no, no. We're 100% committed, and I think that we thought it would be easier to find the right people for the culture we want to build than it really is. What type of culture are in a build we really want to be an agent first, help each other kind of culture where we're all in this together, we're all sharing our ideas so that we can all be better, we're all supporting each other to build our respective businesses and we're treating each other as business partners, and so I think we have some work to do on that. Honestly, we've learned a lot, but it is a hard place to be when you have to pay the bills and there's not enough income coming in to pay your personal bills, so you have to continue to stay in the mix of being an independent agent. So, yeah, I would say yeah.

Speaker 1:

So, like I said at all, yes, that's pretty much it, right.

Speaker 2:

Right, we're doing our business planning in two weeks, so we got a lot of things to talk about for next year.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's an important conversation because I think a lot of people are going through this right now.

Speaker 3:

Right and honestly, it's frustrating because and we say this all the time it's way too easy to get a real estate license. So there are, the market is saturated, but when we go down the list of people, that we would want to work with. So one yeah, if you go and you pull numbers for people for brokerages probably 50% or less are actually really producing, and producing at a high level is very, very small percentage. And then just we look at people that we've been on the opposite side of a transaction with and you get the job done, but you would never want them to be part of your brokerage Right. So it's easy to get the license. It's not easy to be good.

Speaker 1:

And you know it's kind of hard. I think about the industry too. This just popped in my head. There's a lot of industries in our country and I'm not going to get political, but that is controlled by the industry.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Through marketing, advertising, getting people to desire and want this product Right, whereas buying and selling your home, a lot of that depends on the government, aka the interest Fed. Yes, oh yeah, so it puts the whole industry in such a particular interesting whatever word you want to use position where it's like you could only control and do so much. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

That's got to be hard.

Speaker 2:

And we're feeling that big time right now. Right, yeah, Because it's interesting to hear the Fed talk about what they think their lever is to get out of the recession that we're supposedly in and all that kind of stuff, and I just feel like they're so limited with what they can impact that they it's just been challenging and I think we've seen with this last year and a half that their impact is challenging because they only have one lever to pull and it's not working. There's other dynamics at play here, like the bond yield and gross domestic product total cost of housing. All that stuff plays in Interest rates, drives a lot of the total cost of housing, but it's just fascinating to see how- Fascinating that's the word I was going for- that's a very nice word for it. It is. I mean, it is frustrating too, but it's interesting because it causes you to rethink. I think that's why I like this industry is like I'm solving new problems every day and I'm reinventing myself every day Reinvention I like change. I like doing that. I don't like doing the same thing every day.

Speaker 1:

From a technology background, I would assume that you like change.

Speaker 2:

Yeah Well, I was in retail for a little while, but it was e-commerce retail but every year was the same, like Christmas in July, and then you had Thanksgiving. I was just like I can't do it for another year. I did it for two and a half years and I was like, if I have to do another Christmas in July, I'm going to just scream.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love that because that is one thing, as the agents that will, the people in the business that are going to make it out in their years. They're going to be people that love the change. They're going to keep reinventing themselves. You guys are on top of it with your marketing and highlighting other people. Thank you, putting the focus on the client or the customers and the businesses and being dedicated to that, knowing that it will come back.

Speaker 2:

Hearing it from you means a lot, because you know your stuff. Yes, we appreciate that.

Speaker 1:

It's how you say, it's really how, and I hate to say like saying relevant, but it's how you say relevant that's very true Is putting the spotlight on other people. Okay, where do you guys see yourself 10 years from now?

Speaker 3:

Oh, should we do Maggie's visualization.

Speaker 2:

Do you want to answer that? And then I'll just depend, oh gosh 10 years Well you're going to cry.

Speaker 3:

No, because it's not personal. So little inside joke. There's a visualization. We went. This was several years ago, she's probably 2018, 2019. Yeah, we went to a seminar, like a three-day seminar, and part it was all about business planning, but part of that was this visualization exercise, and we literally are in, like it's a hotel, it's like a big conference room. Right, there's hundreds of people in there. You're supposed to close your eyes and he walks you through this whole visualization of you know where do you see your five years, 10 years, 20 years? Who's at the table?

Speaker 2:

What you know? What are your kids doing?

Speaker 3:

Yes, like you. Oh, I'm going to kill you now.

Speaker 2:

Her core value is family, like there is no question about it.

Speaker 3:

Yes, but, and this, this is ridiculous, this is what happens, and, but I mean it wasn't just me, I mean it was in a conference room.

Speaker 2:

I cry too, but not like her.

Speaker 3:

Bye, thank you. But, it like I never expected that kind of thought process to be that emotional. And so now it is this running joke and we do it every year as part of our business planning that we do with other agents. What's coming up in two weeks? Yes, 17. Oh well, yes, so that we're doing with for other agents and then our own internal, just the two of us, is later that week, but yeah, anyway, so visualization is like a trigger word for me, yeah, and thinking about the future in five or 10 years or 20 years, but no, but so down the road You're like.

Speaker 1:

now that I'm triggered, let's continue.

Speaker 3:

Well, yeah, I've talked myself through it. Yes, you're good and I really may I give you all the credit because she really is the one that has the vision right. I'm along for the ride, I'm here to support the ride, but no, it's what you're driving the bus, yeah, no no, you believe in the vision. Yes, no, no. It's just got the roadmap. It's got the like. Our yes, our vision and where we want to go aligns really well. But I do, she is much more the big thinker, like I don't know she has that ability. But regardless, it's more than just about being a little boutique brokerage here in Weisberg. Right, we want to grow, we want to have other offices and other locations. This product-based lady wants you know a whole other business line which I think is fascinating and I'm going to learn all about that.

Speaker 2:

Well, the brand was designed to be a lifestyle brand because I came from that and I was so excited to be able to build my own brand, and so it's designed so that there can be product extensions off of it, whether it's service-oriented or physical hard good products, and that's kind of where I'd love us to go. We just have to get the broker's side of it up, humming and running and have some really good people that want to build it with us Cause you're not trying to step away from the business You're trying to build.

Speaker 1:

And then all of these are just going to help.

Speaker 3:

Right, and the whole idea is to build opportunity for other people that have the same kind of desires. Right, like that's part of the structure of our brokerage. You can come in and you can be an individual agent, but we've got a structure in place for you to build your own team, to open your own office. Like cause, that's what we wanted. We didn't feel like we got other places, and so that was really important as we started shaping the business to provide those opportunities.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and on the flip side of that equation, coming up in consumer marketing right, like providing a better customer experience in all aspects of not only the real estate process but also extensions of home beyond that is really important because I do feel like if you can simplify it and customers can come to you and know you and know what they're going to get from you and it's expected in every facet of that process that would be a great thing and it's I'm making it sound a lot easier than it is. I'm not stupid to think that it's not like otherwise people would be doing it right and people are doing pieces of it right. But I come from a consumer marketing background and so, like I want to create a really great experience for people and even if it's something as simple as you have a coupon book when you buy a house that gives you discounts to all the local people so you can go in and meet, you know like, but don't do a coupon book, do a coupon app, yeah, yeah, but then I have to pay, then I have to pay it for the no. but yeah, we could. I mean, you know what I mean figuratively, but you know just the little things count it does. And so I think we lose sight of that. And now we're wrapped up in this. You know, I don't know this industry where you can't put down your screens and everybody's very narcissistic and you know it's all about you and you and you. And oh, look at me today and look at my funny TikTok, and sure that's fun. But at the end of the day, have we lost sight of like helping other people? I think?

Speaker 1:

so how did you do it differently? You have a magic wand. You didn't have to play by their rules. You don't have to do the TikTok videos. You don't have to make the algorithm happy. What would you do differently?

Speaker 2:

Well, I would have everything all encompassed into one experience. So you know the title, the mortgage, the real estate transaction, all that stuff would be all together and you'd be dealing with the same people throughout the whole process, right? So hopefully that would drive word of mouth, you know, so that we wouldn't have to go on and do the TikToks. And we do them, right, they're fun, but it's a lot of mental work to kind of be creative in that way, as opposed to just kind of providing a service or talking about the community or businesses.

Speaker 3:

So it's not where we can add the most value.

Speaker 2:

So I think you know, by building a great customer experience you're going to get people to talk about it more. Let them do the TikTok videos on you. Yeah, exactly With us, Like, come on, we'll come in. Well, but I think you know, just trying to figure out what, when are the pain points and how do we solve for those pain points? And you can see them in the experience of the transaction. And you know, I don't know that it's easily solvable because you've got RESPA and you've got all these other things, that kind of limit, the scope of how much you can do things in exchange revenue. But I do, there are ways around it that you can build. But if we didn't have RESPA, then you know we could do whatever we wanted right. Yeah, it would be crazy. But you know, I think what we're trying to do and back to the magic one is just add value wherever we possibly can, Because I think that speaks for itself and over time, that's going to make the difference in longevity. And we'd like to do that with agents, and so that's why we're trying to flip the focus to agents to show them that we just want to help, like we're not here to say, like we're going to give you the highest split, like we have great splits, but that's not. I don't want you coming for the money, because if you're coming for the money, you're going to leave in a year, right, so we also come in yeah. And we don't want that rotating door. We want family, we want, you know, community within our organization and we want to reward people for participating in the organization. We don't want to be the people that are the rain makers. We don't want to be the people that are like you know, I'm the boss and you're going to do what I tell you to do, like we want people coming to us going hey, I got this great idea with you know, can we try this? We want to try it. You know what I mean? I mean that's the ultimate dream is like have a good group of people aligned on the vision, supporting each other to get there and all getting really rich as a result of it. That's a nice little side benefit, yeah, yeah. Well, that is the goal, right, because then if you have money, then you can help the community more, you can help do the things you're passionate about, like the environment and whatever.

Speaker 1:

I love that you're not shy about money. You're a business owner, so everybody that usually comes here is not shy about money. But that is one thing that when people are like outside of the business world, like I, have no problem talking about money and like my goals for my clients to be successful, my teammate members, I want to pay everybody well here. It's like if you have issues about money, do not understand that. That's how we give back to the community. That's how we're able to give raises to the team members and to employ more people. Employ more people, hire more people exactly. So it's a good mindset, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so yeah, I mean I think we've got a ways to go, but we're going to get there. We just thought it would have it better than it is, but frankly, it's because our attention is divided in like 50 million different places. So it's hard, like if all we did was focus on meeting agents and building relationships with them, we would be a lot farther along. But we have content to create and houses to sell so we can pay our bills and yeah.

Speaker 1:

It's a balance, but you're learning yeah, we're learning a lot. Oh, we've learned so much. Yeah, even just the whole content to create, like, because that is the world that we're moving into more and more, like you're going to be able to actually educate from experience, versus educate from what some coach told you and that now you're telling them.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yeah, and I shared that chart with you. I still subscribe to eMarketer because of my old days, but they do these charts and it was summarizing where views video views, tv views, whatever are moving to YouTube's like the number two source where people are getting. They're going to do live streaming, so they're cutting the cable and they're all, and I'd sent it to her going. This is why we're investing in YouTube, because people, it's the number two search engine and then the long form. If you do the long form and once we get that app, we can create a lot of content from the long form that we do.

Speaker 1:

You're going to literally send me a text message and be like thank you.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yes, it's amazing.

Speaker 1:

Well, it's not amazing. Yeah, it's even amazing. I love it. She's the one. She's doing a thing. She's doing a thing. I know why she hesitated because there were a couple of like where it's like a whole minute where it just said uh um, uh, um, and Lil's like I was like, did I actually do that?

Speaker 2:

I say so a lot, I really say so a lot.

Speaker 1:

She's like no you didn't say that, but the captions just had it.

Speaker 3:

Oh, we were just editing captions on a video before we came over here and the things that it changes.

Speaker 1:

It's like this isn't appropriate. I cannot post this, but it's funny.

Speaker 3:

She adds blooper reels now.

Speaker 1:

I do.

Speaker 3:

In our videos.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean you know you want to be human to people, right? Yeah, you're not here to be the talking head.

Speaker 3:

Experts like serious people right, I do not look like news.

Speaker 2:

No but we have a lot of fun when we videotape together.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I love that you called it videotape.

Speaker 2:

What am I supposed to say? Video, film, video, okay.

Speaker 3:

We're not supposed to leave voice mails either.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, what's it? Oh right.

Speaker 3:

Maybe if I feel I am not calling you back and as I'm leaving it I'm like, yeah, so apparently I'm old because I'm not supposed to leave voicemails anymore.

Speaker 1:

Well, I leave voicemails all the time. Is that like something? That's like Apparently? It's that young folks don't do it, they just text after.

Speaker 2:

No, they don't even text after and I'm like what am I supposed to do with this? Like, if I'm a best call for you, I don't answer, or.

Speaker 1:

I mean I don't call back. I don't either, especially if I don't have it Right.

Speaker 3:

if you text and say hey, can you call me? I'll call you back, but if you just called me, I didn't pick up and you didn't leave a voicemail or text message.

Speaker 1:

I'm not that curious. No, especially with all the spam calls.

Speaker 2:

Yes, At least some of them are marked potential spam.

Speaker 3:

Yeah that's so hard, though, because right.

Speaker 2:

I know as a real estate agent, you're like could it be an?

Speaker 1:

opportunity. Yeah Well, no, there's like an area code 276, that calls in five times a day, and so now we know when that Nobody even answers it's just click.

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah, it's like a rubble. You kind of want to pick it up and go we've done that.

Speaker 1:

I have when I'm in a sassy mood, yes, but then I don't feel good afterwards and I don't say anything mean besides, like I'll just start asking them questions. Why are you calling me? Take me off your list, yeah, and subscribe please. Yes, all right. Any advice for business owners not just real estate agents, but just parting words. Any advice for people that have the same hearts in terms of wanting to not just make money but really create an impact and build something that's worth building.

Speaker 3:

It's a lot harder than you think it's going to be Timeline.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, they have a plan yeah you do have to, because it's not going to happen just because you want it to happen. So you have to be smart about where you're allocating your resources, and I'm not saying that's easy, because I think we still struggle with that.

Speaker 3:

We do.

Speaker 2:

But we're so much better than we were and just give yourself grace, like I'm not good at that, but you can't build. What does it say? Rome wasn't built in a day, right, and it takes time and sometimes you want it to go faster than it does. And maybe you think you're on the wrong path. Like it's easy to say right now, like did we make the right investment in YouTube? I mean, we're seeing our numbers start to climb a little bit and our impressions grow, but we aren't getting calls for business, right. So you kind of question okay, we've been doing this for six months, but we've made an investment and we made a commitment and we are going to continue to see that through because, at the end of the day, building organic value is a lot better than paid, because you know paid is it can fluctuate, like if you have no money coming in, you got to stop the paid, but you can always do organic Right and along those lines you have to be willing to stick with.

Speaker 3:

I mean, you have to plan, you have to do your research, you have to know what you're getting into. But when it doesn't work immediately, you can't just abandon ship and try to go to a different direction, like honestly, were you saying that to Maggie?

Speaker 2:

No, no, no, we had. We've had conversations about it before we have done it.

Speaker 3:

I mean, well, we've been fairly good, but there are things that we abandoned more quickly. Yeah, and I think we've learned right, and that's part of why we're sticking with. I mean, the data supports it, right, but it's been, we've learned.

Speaker 2:

you know, to give things a little more time and Well, and I would say yes to that, but I'd say but because, like, it reminded me that you really need to have, like, if you're going to invest in something, you need to have metrics to measure and metrics that you think you can hit so that you can evaluate how you're doing. And I think when we abandoned things quickly, we really didn't have metrics to say, like, is it working, is it not working? It was just like me going we're done. Emotionally, like we're done. It's working right. So I think you always have, even if it's just pulling it out of your butt, you've got to have some like we did this on YouTube.

Speaker 3:

We were like Just look at the chart. We completely made those numbers up.

Speaker 2:

And we're like on target and they're not big in terms of like views. Video views Subscribers. Subscribers views per video. Yeah, Length of time watched. So we had all that mapped out before we started so that we just would have a gauge right. And we had no idea we probably they probably were low ball numbers, but it makes you feel good and want to keep going if you know you're hitting those numbers right. So always have metrics. Metrics are so important and a lot of people don't want to have metrics. A lot of people don't want to write goals, A lot of people don't want to have a big Y. But you know what? You're not going to wake up every morning and, on those hard days, go like I have to keep going because this is what I want to do. You're just, it's just too easy to go. I think I'll just sleep, you know. I think I'll just go watch a movie, you know. And then the bill collector comes.

Speaker 3:

Yes, yes so.

Speaker 2:

I don't know if that's helpful.

Speaker 1:

I think, kids need to go to college. My parting words are essentially you guys with how kids, same thing when they're little, they take a lot of work. The days are long. You're trying to figure out like when does it get easier? And hopefully it does eventually get easier as they get older. But regardless if it gets easier or not, there's a time when you look back and you're like, oh my gosh, like I created this masterpiece and I put the work in and look at this beautiful, self-sufficient adult.

Speaker 2:

It's a very, very good point. It's a great analogy because it doesn't get easier, it just gets different when they get older and you have to adapt. Just speaking from experience, and I think the biggest challenge for me because I'm an empty nester is they don't need me anymore, and I grew up being a mom and serving others in that role and now I'm like what do I?

Speaker 1:

do now. I can do that with agents.

Speaker 2:

I know I'm like, come to me, but you're absolutely right. I mean, yeah, it goes by slowly kind of, and then you turn around and then they're all grown up and you're like, what the heck? What happened?

Speaker 3:

Right, so maybe that's what's happening now, right? Our baby Business is slow. It feels like it's taking forever for the kid to learn to walk. Yes, right, but then it'll be flying on its own before we know it.

Speaker 1:

There you go. You just keep feeding it and changing its diaper.

Speaker 2:

There's some stinky diapers, wiping it when it needs to be wiped. Thank you both so much.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for inviting us.

Speaker 2:

Of course.

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